Michael Jones
New member
Has anyone used this vintage mic? I'm thinking it would be great on vocals, being that it was a broadcast mic. Also, will 48 volt phantom power, power this mic?
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
It's a fantastic mic. DO NOT put phantom power to this mic as it's an older ribbon element an can be damaged by applying power. It's good on a lot of sources. Very smooth top end. Another thing to watch for with a ribbon like this is extremly loud sources or hard plosives can blow out or stretch the ribbon. I've used them and would love to have one but they're a little pricey for me right now.
Michael Jones
New member
Track Rat said:
WOW! I'm glad you told me that! I'm still waiting on delivery though. So I don't have it in my hot little hands yet. But of course I ask questions before using vintage gear. So, it's more along the lines of a condensor mic, but uses ribbons for the element? I mean I know its a ribbon mic but, do ALL ribbon mics NOT require phantom power? I was also looking at the Royer 121 mics as well.
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
Traditional ribbon mics don't use phantom power at all. There are now some hybrid ribbon mics (Royer has two new ones as does Octava) that have an FET in the mic that does use phantom power. That's the exception though. Traditional ribbons like Royers, RCA, Coles, Beyers and such don't use phantom power.
tubedude
New member
Nice. Where'd ya get it and how much?
Have Steven Sank check it out for ya, if you think you need to. Ribbons are a funny bunch, and keep them away from the front of kick drums. Excellent buy.
Have Steven Sank check it out for ya, if you think you need to. Ribbons are a funny bunch, and keep them away from the front of kick drums. Excellent buy.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
The RCA 77DX is a great multipattern ribbon mic that can be used on almost any instrument you can think of, with a few warnings:
1. Like any other ribbon mic, it has a very low output, so you better have a preamp with lots of gain and a very low noise floor.
2. Like most of the older ribbon mics, they are very sensitive to air blasts, which can damage or destroy the ribbon. The ribbon in an RCA 77DX is incredibly thin - around 7/10ths of one micron thick. By comparison, a human hair is about 20 microns thick.
Air blasts that can damage or destroy the ribbon can be any of the following:
Air from an air duct or air conditioner.
Blowing into the mic.
Closing a nearby door too fast.
Closing the lid on the mic case too quickly.
Placing it too close to a kick drum.
Swinging it on a mic boom.
Taking it outside.
Carrying it while walking too fast.
None of the above statements should be considered a joke - I'm really serious about all of them. Also, regularly use it upside down as well as upright to keep the ribbon from developing a sag.
Always use a pop filter in front of them if the musician does not have really good mic technique. Below about 400 Hz, the power handling goes down about 6 dB per octave. For example:
If
400Hz = 126 dB MAX SPL,
then
200Hz = 120 dB MAX SPL
100Hz = 114 dB MAX SPL
50Hz = 108 dB MAX SPL
25Hz = 102 dB MAX SPL
In spite of all the cautions, the RCA 77DX, and its big brother, the RCA 44BX are two of the most wonderful mics ever made and worth every bit of the care involved.
1. Like any other ribbon mic, it has a very low output, so you better have a preamp with lots of gain and a very low noise floor.
2. Like most of the older ribbon mics, they are very sensitive to air blasts, which can damage or destroy the ribbon. The ribbon in an RCA 77DX is incredibly thin - around 7/10ths of one micron thick. By comparison, a human hair is about 20 microns thick.
Air blasts that can damage or destroy the ribbon can be any of the following:
Air from an air duct or air conditioner.
Blowing into the mic.
Closing a nearby door too fast.
Closing the lid on the mic case too quickly.
Placing it too close to a kick drum.
Swinging it on a mic boom.
Taking it outside.
Carrying it while walking too fast.
None of the above statements should be considered a joke - I'm really serious about all of them. Also, regularly use it upside down as well as upright to keep the ribbon from developing a sag.
Always use a pop filter in front of them if the musician does not have really good mic technique. Below about 400 Hz, the power handling goes down about 6 dB per octave. For example:
If
400Hz = 126 dB MAX SPL,
then
200Hz = 120 dB MAX SPL
100Hz = 114 dB MAX SPL
50Hz = 108 dB MAX SPL
25Hz = 102 dB MAX SPL
In spite of all the cautions, the RCA 77DX, and its big brother, the RCA 44BX are two of the most wonderful mics ever made and worth every bit of the care involved.
Michael Jones
New member
Thanks for the info Harvey. I WILL be very careful!
Tubedude, I bought it at an estate auction. Bid over the phone for it as the auction was out of town, but I did view it before buying it. I'm almost embarresed to tell you how much I paid for it. I've seen them go for anywhere between $600 and $2500. I paid just over a grand for this one. Seems high, but hey, you only live once, so get what you like, and do what you love!
Tubedude, I bought it at an estate auction. Bid over the phone for it as the auction was out of town, but I did view it before buying it. I'm almost embarresed to tell you how much I paid for it. I've seen them go for anywhere between $600 and $2500. I paid just over a grand for this one. Seems high, but hey, you only live once, so get what you like, and do what you love!
Michael Jones
New member
tubedude said:
Is that this guy here:
http://www.bigdmc.com/mic-repair.htm
Probably not. This guy does some wonderful Vintage RCA restorations. Well worth a look at his before and after pics.
He must have been a master machinist, 'cuz what he does is phenominal!
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
I didn't know about "Big D" - that makes four places I can recommend for rebuilding and checking old RCA ribbon mics. The four places would be:
Stephen Sank, Albuquerque, NM (His father designed many of the original RCA mics, and he's probably the lowest cost for repairs.) He has the original jigs and materials RCA used.
Clarence Kane (ENAK) NJ Clarence worked at RCA, building some of the original mics. He also has the original jigs and materials RCA used.
Wes Dooley AEA, Pasadena CA. Longtimer rebuilder of RCA mics. He's the importer for Coles ribbon mics and a master rebuilder. He has the original materials RCA used.
Big D, IN I don't know anything about him, but I am impressed with his passion for accuracy. His prices seem a little high on some things.
Stephen Sank, Albuquerque, NM (His father designed many of the original RCA mics, and he's probably the lowest cost for repairs.) He has the original jigs and materials RCA used.
Clarence Kane (ENAK) NJ Clarence worked at RCA, building some of the original mics. He also has the original jigs and materials RCA used.
Wes Dooley AEA, Pasadena CA. Longtimer rebuilder of RCA mics. He's the importer for Coles ribbon mics and a master rebuilder. He has the original materials RCA used.
Big D, IN I don't know anything about him, but I am impressed with his passion for accuracy. His prices seem a little high on some things.
Michael Jones
New member
Harvey, do any of these other guys have web sites?
I thought some of Big D's prices were high too, but the final product would seem to justify it.
Another great link here:
http://www.k-bay106.com/photos.htm
Pictures of many different kinds of vintage mics, not just RCA. And there's a "market watch" in there too. Gives you an idea of what the various vintage mics are going for.
I thought some of Big D's prices were high too, but the final product would seem to justify it.
Another great link here:
http://www.k-bay106.com/photos.htm
Pictures of many different kinds of vintage mics, not just RCA. And there's a "market watch" in there too. Gives you an idea of what the various vintage mics are going for.
M
Mark H.
New member
If ribbons are so easily destroyed by an errant breeze, how can one ever buy one used with any confidence that it hasn't been severely damaged? The risk seems enormous, especially when buying from an "estate sale" or some other likely non-user of ribbon microphones. Even among people here, whose knowledge of microphones is probably in the top half-percent of the general population, how many would have known that a classic ribbon could be damaged by swinging it on a boom or closing its box too quickly? Wow!
It's a brave man who lays down in excess of a thousand dollars for a delicate instrument he hasn't heard....
Hoping to hear great things about it....
Mark H.
It's a brave man who lays down in excess of a thousand dollars for a delicate instrument he hasn't heard....
Hoping to hear great things about it....
Mark H.
Michael Jones
New member
Well, I did think long and hard about it Mark, but the guy was in broadcasting, so I'm sure he's been around microphones. From the information I have been able to gather, the mean selling price for one of these mics is $2800. This one was cosmetically very good, it looked well cared for. But I never buy anything used with out expecting to have to put some more money into it. So, I figure if I have to spend $500 - $700 to have it re-ribboned, then I have one hell of a mic for $1700!
This mic was introduced in 1954 and sold for about $260 (1954 dollars) adjusting for inflation, it would have been the equivelent of about $750 in 2001 Dollars(assuming an inflation rate 4% per year) So, if it sold in 1954 for the equivelent of $750 dollars, and today (47 years later) it sells for $2800 then thats an appreciation of about 8% per year. Not a bad long term investment!
This mic was introduced in 1954 and sold for about $260 (1954 dollars) adjusting for inflation, it would have been the equivelent of about $750 in 2001 Dollars(assuming an inflation rate 4% per year) So, if it sold in 1954 for the equivelent of $750 dollars, and today (47 years later) it sells for $2800 then thats an appreciation of about 8% per year. Not a bad long term investment!
M
Mark H.
New member
Michael,
You're right, of course, and what's amazing is how relatively seldom people report really awful problems with used mics --
Congratulations on your purchase, and I hope we can hear some sample clips from it sometime in the future.
Best wishes,
Mark H.
You're right, of course, and what's amazing is how relatively seldom people report really awful problems with used mics --
Congratulations on your purchase, and I hope we can hear some sample clips from it sometime in the future.
Best wishes,
Mark H.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
You're going to be quite pleased with it then, since I think Stephen Sank will re-ribbon it for around $150, I think. From your description, it may not need it.Michael Jones said:
And you can download the original RCA 77DX owner's manual here:
http://www.k-bay106.com/rca77dx.pdf
Enjoy.
Michael Jones
New member
Thanks Harvey!
I am a little aprehensive in using it though, I'll just be very gingerly with it. You mentioned having a pre-amp with lots of gain and very low noise floor. Any suggestions?
I have an ART PRO MPA Mic Pre, and a Yamaha O1V for my mic pres. OK, hmm,,, looking over the Yamaha O1V Owner's Manual Specifications I find the following:
Hum and Noise:
-128 dB equivalent input noise
-94 dB residual output noise
-94 dB (98 dB S/N) ST fader at nominal level
The gain is -16 to -60
(20hZ - 20khZ) Rs 150 Ohms, input gain max, Input pad 0 dB, Input sensitivity -60dB (Then there's some verbage about how it was measured)
Actual Load impedence is 3k Ohms
Then it says:
For use with nominal 50 - 600 ohm mics & 600 ohm lines
Thats the O1V's specs.
The ART PRO MPA's is as follows:
Input Impedence: XLR connection is 1.67k ohms 1/4" is 840K ohms
Output impedence: XLR is 600 ohms 1/4" is 300 ohms
CMRR is >90 dB (typical at 1kHz)
Equivalent Input Noise: >-124 dBu unweighted
>-133 dBu ("A" weighted)
OK, it's not all Greek to me, but a good deal of it is! Would either of those meet the Noise floor you speak of?
I am a little aprehensive in using it though, I'll just be very gingerly with it. You mentioned having a pre-amp with lots of gain and very low noise floor. Any suggestions?
I have an ART PRO MPA Mic Pre, and a Yamaha O1V for my mic pres. OK, hmm,,, looking over the Yamaha O1V Owner's Manual Specifications I find the following:
Hum and Noise:
-128 dB equivalent input noise
-94 dB residual output noise
-94 dB (98 dB S/N) ST fader at nominal level
The gain is -16 to -60
(20hZ - 20khZ) Rs 150 Ohms, input gain max, Input pad 0 dB, Input sensitivity -60dB (Then there's some verbage about how it was measured)
Actual Load impedence is 3k Ohms
Then it says:
For use with nominal 50 - 600 ohm mics & 600 ohm lines
Thats the O1V's specs.
The ART PRO MPA's is as follows:
Input Impedence: XLR connection is 1.67k ohms 1/4" is 840K ohms
Output impedence: XLR is 600 ohms 1/4" is 300 ohms
CMRR is >90 dB (typical at 1kHz)
Equivalent Input Noise: >-124 dBu unweighted
>-133 dBu ("A" weighted)
OK, it's not all Greek to me, but a good deal of it is! Would either of those meet the Noise floor you speak of?
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H
Henri Devill
New member
I bet that mic will sound smoooooth..Grace 101 "ribbon version" {extra gain}would be a nice match..70db of gain..Im jealous!
Don
Don
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
You'll just have to try each preamp when you get the mic. Make sure the mic is strapped for 250 ohm output, although you might find that the 30 ohm or the 150 ohm output connections might work better thru your preamps. Read the manual - it's very easy to make this change and try it on all three output settings to see which works best for you.