Quick vocal question...

[c9-2001]

last week i was having a problem with vocals.. getting a nice vocal presence.. for my rap artist i like to have a good upfront vocal sound like Jay-z.
to me the vocals were thin as hell and i had to eq to much.. but to others they loved the song, though they don't have trained ears..

now i know the rule is to record vocals Mono and pan...
well the other day while i was making a beat one of my artist was filling it and wanted to freestyle on it while i was making it..so i opened wavelab and just recorded him along with the beat..that's a stereo track... the vocals sound perfect.. no eq, no compression or anything.. i was making the beat at the time so i didn't really care how it sounded but it came out as the cleanest mix i've done in a while and i couldn't even mix it.

now i have tried recording vocals mono, copying them and panning one L64 and one R64.. but that still doesn't sound as good ... this was just a freestyle and the vocals are upfront.thick, have great presence ETC...

so should i record my Lead vocals stereo(though i know its not real stereo) and record the stack and adlibs mono and pan them out???

 

[c9-2001]

anyone.. i have a session in about 45minutes..

 

[Gidge]

if you recorded from one mic, even though you sent it to a stereo track, it is still mono....it should sound the same if you had recorded it mono and copied the track, considering the same mic,pre,etc was used with the same settings, etc. etc.

did you do anything else different than record stereo?.....

 

[KingstonRock]

i think this may be your problem, you copied the same track and panned it l64 and r64

Jay-z is notorius for his doubled vocals, that means that he does two takes and pans the first take l64 and the second r64. If you pan out the same exact same track twice, all you have is mono

 

[c9-2001]

i didn't do anything different.. i just tracked the vocals at the same time as the beat.. i wasn't gonna keep it..
i was just making the beat and my boy wanted to freestyle on it..

i don't know.. all i know is it made the vocals sound the way i like them to sound...

 

[KingstonRock]

oo, i see what you're saying, i thought you wanted to get the jay-z doubled up sound

The only explanation I can think of is that in a relaxed state, I.E. it was a freestyle that wasnt supposed to be kept, your friend was able to rap *better*

if he was rapping more confidently there would be a more upfront sound. Try this, tell him you just wanna listen back to the beat and see how the vocals fit and just have him rap, dont tell him that you are, but just hit record

 

[c9-2001]

we just had a show on thursday.. the song that we recorded was a ATL bounce track(LIL John type sh!t)
he had so much energy on that song but the vocals still don't match the quality of the freestyle.. i'ma keep my setup the way it is right now cuz its sounding right..

 

[Guardian]

hmm

Sounds like maybe you actually just had your mono mic signal being doubled on top of itself...take your vocal track, and mult it to another channel..bring both faders up dead center..is that the sound you got?

 

[KingstonRock]

in that case you would just have twice the volume,

this is the last possibility I can think of, When he was tracking "for real" I would guess he had a different approach to the mic than if he was freestyling. My guess would be that if he was freestyling he might have had a slightly off-axis approach on the mic, because he wouldnt be concentrating on his positioning, and he would either be really far or really close, depending on his style as a rapper. If he got up close to the mic proximity effect would make the vocals everything but thin, as you said they were during "real" tracking. The effect of he off-axis posistioning, if he was singing at an angle, is different from mic to mic, but it may have been what you wanted.

Try, singing/rapping into the mic at an angle, and try singing/rapping into the mic from what seems like too close, even extremely close if you have too.

 

[Guardian]

ya

I know it would just double the volume, etc..but he said they sounded more upfront, etc, and I figured that might account for it...they'd probably also sound flangey/chorusey, etc just like when you play the same sound on a synth on the same note..or with a drum kit patch.
..but it could have just been he was trying to be 'cool' and getting all up on the mic as compared to being nervous/timid when he NEW he was being recorded and staying back a little/holding back a lot..

performance vs. pristineness is my motto anyday.

 

[nicolaad30]

Try using a bit of compression and EQ, but don't overpass the EQ...

Rule: When you record something and you hear it alone, it will sound good as hell...bring all instruments on and it will sound like crap...this is what EQ could fix, but EQing is an art and it should be done with care.


Double traks are nice too...sometimes

 

[c9-2001]

compression isn't gonna help anything right now..
the sound i was getting was good, but lacked presence.. i use the Rcomp or C1 for compression on vocals. eq.. i have his eq set perfect.. and song he does sounds perfect now..

as for the way he was rapping on the freestyle.. the mic never moved.. and the pop screen is set about 6inches away from the mic... he actually didn't have the energy that he has on a song that he writes.. he was just chillin in the booth... but it sounded great..

as for the session i ran today.. it sounds great too.. i don't know whats different but i like the sound i'm getting right now even without a outboard pre and compressor... i'm just using te pres in my console..

Guardian, i did what you siad.. that made vocals louder but still don't have the presence that the freestyle had.. and i even had a clean eq set..the freestyle was flat.. no compression, no eq, no reverb nothing..