Questions on Delay/Reverb

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WIZZLE

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I noticed that when I listen to professional sounding music, especially on a lot of hip hop, that alot of the vocals have a small echoing effect, which i figured was delay. I have played around with the delay and reverb features from a few different pluggins but I cant figure out how to get that same small, but noticeble amount of delay on my vocals. I try the presets and it always sounds like I am recording in a cave somewhere, or I a slapback effect from the delay, where I can hear everything twice. What is a good setting on the Delay, where you can get just a small amount of echo to make the vocal sound fuller, without it being repeated?



P.S. This one goes out to spinwunster, I read those articles that you posted on here and I noticed my sound improving greatly. THANKS



WIZZLE
 
I think the best bet is to keep it short with not a whole lot of feedback (slapback). The problem I've always had when doing vocals with a delay though is that it starts sounding metallic and awful. For vocals, I'd go with a short washy reverb. Then you can use a longer delay for an effect on important vocal passages (i.e. when one quick line is repeated). Also, another bit of advice is to just experiment. Using software presets are usually a no-no, unless you're using them as a starting point. But if the verbs are sounding like you're in a "cave", then don't use that one. Sorry I haven't given you any presets of my own, but well, that's no fun then. It's better to do it on your own. But remember to keep it short and sweet.

Mike
 
The trick with delays is to set the time to match the tempo of the song, usually with only one or two repeats. Needless to say, this is not somthing which can be done with presets. You have to set the time for each song.

Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Ganhdi
 
Wizzle,

Just to elaborate on what Light said, you can set your delay time to match the tempo or also some multiple or fraction of the tempo – depending on the effect you want.

For example, say your tempo is 100 beats per minute.

Then:

Time per beat = 60 seconds/Tempo = 60 sec/100 bpm = 0.6 sec per beat

Good choices for delay times are 2, 1, 1/2, 1/4 times this value.

or

1.2, 0.6, 0.3, 0.15 seconds in this example.

Another delay time you might try is 1/3 the beat time, or 0.2 sec in this example. 1/3 the time per beat gives a triplet, which can also have a cool effect.

Another important value to set is the Predelay on the reverb. For hip hop you probably want to set this as high as you can, but still keep it a fraction of the tempo. 100 ms (0.1 sec) is the maximum predelay on some reverb units. So, in this 100 bpm example, you could multiple 0.6 sec by 1/8 giving 75 ms (0.075 sec). This would be the maximum "rhythmic" predelay setting.

Of course, all delay and predelay times are valid, if they fit the mood you're trying to achieve. But setting them as a function of the tempo will give a more rhythmic feel, while other values will tend to be more abstract and dreamy.

barefoot
 
Roll off some of the lows and highs to help keep the delay from being to present and covering up the original vocal.
 
There's a great example of a triplet delay on the Living Colour album "Stain", I think the song is called "Leave it Alone." They change the delay for one word in the vocal track ("peace") which makes it stand out in a very cool way.

Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Ganhdi
 
I don't know how many other people do this, but I often use the delay only as an intermittent effect. I use automation to only have the delay cut in at the ends of certain phrases where there is a space for it.

Also, referring to an earlier post by mikemoritz, perhaps there are multiple definitions for slapback and feedback, I have always used those terms to mean two very different things.

In the usage I am familiar with, feedback refers to the number of repetitions in the delay. A simple delay without feedback would have just one "echo". Infininte feedback would produce a never ending amount of repetitions (often turning into "real" feedback).

Slapback on the other had refers to a specific range of delay times that give you a short but discrete echo effect. It was used so often on Elvis's records, that the effect tends to add a 1950's ambience in the mind of the listener.
 
Hey dog,

What about the delay used on Lennon's double Fantasy? You know . . . sounds like a slap-back, but not quite as cheezy. Less junky sounding (?) And don't tell me he doubled the vocal line. :D
 
Fun With Delay

Sounds like a Mr. Wizard line! All the above comments are good ones, I must say. I'd like to add a few of my own. I first got into delay sounds playing guitar and it seemed like it always sounded the best to me when I used a tape delay or an analog delay. Why? Because the delays had lower fidelity than the original signal. In a lot of cases, the less high frequency info in the delayed signal, the better it sounded. Its warmer and doesn't interfere with the frequencies that are critical for clarity and presence. It is fatter that way.

I like the idea of puting the delay in time to the tempo. Sometimes, you can move it slightly faster or slower than the tempo as well for good effect.

Sometimes I will use a tap delay with a bunch of different delay times and mix that back so its just barely cracked on in the mix--so you don't really hear it much, but you get a sense of space. This can work wonders on certain things.

Another thing I do with delay sometimes is to run it before a reverb, so the repeats wash into the reverb. Make sure that the mix is 100% wet for both the delay and reverb when you do this, otherwise changing effect levels will also change the level of your non-effected dry signal. This treatment doesn't sound like delay so much, but it creates an interesting effect as it washes into the reverb. You have to play around with the delays until it sounds right. No real rules.

One last thing I do sometimes is to copy and double a track and shift ithe copied track later in time. The you can pan it to wherever you want the delay to be in the mix. Depending on how you do your shift, you can control the amount of delay. You can also EQ the shifted track--cut some highs off of it or run it through some chorus--whatever.

As you can imagine, I love delay! These are just some things to try. Wizzle, try to roll off highs on your delay and use 1 repeat only. My guess would be somewhere between 60-100 milliseconds for what you are seeking. just turn it up enoughso it won't fight with the lead vox. Have fun!
 
Oh, I forgot to mention that sometimes what sounds like a subtle delay effect is actually a reverb set with long predelay and short decay.

Try that as well Wizzle. You might not need delay at all to get the effect you want.

barefoot
 
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