Question for the Pros: "The Who" sound???

[nsterken]

Okay, talking mixing here...

Why is it that when I listen to recordings from the band "The Who", such as, "Join Together" or "Who Are You", "We Won't Get Fooled Again", or even "Pinball Wizard" they sound SO much bigger, livelier, in your face like you're at the show, front row compared to modern recordings, such as Foo Fighters, Third Eye Blind, Green Day, any loud rock act or loud pop recording?

The music/album I'm working on now sounds like a mix between Third Eye Blind and The Who. I want my mixes to sound lively like The Who recordings. To me, the modern recordings just sound SO subdued and flat compared to The Who recordings. Why is this?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Probably not over-compressed like most modern rock recordings.

 

[Bobbsy]

Exactly. Since it was recorded in 1968, I'll assume it was recorded in a small number of tracks using only limited processing in the mix.

Oh, and having some of the best rock musicians ever doing the recording probably helps too!

 

[nsterken]

I agree. With the compression thing and with what Bobbsy is saying. I also think its a lot of WHAT compressors they use and how they used them. It really seemed to enhance the music. I also like, thought, the reverbs they used. Modern music sounds so stale and dry compared to this. Its like the commercial rock industry has everything so sanitized down, how can we even call it rock and roll anymore?

 

[CrowsofFritz]

I would go as far to say the problem is the tracking.

Today, artists try to go for the most perfect take possible, and on top of that, engineers will add auto-tune to make it even more "perfect"

I think the experience is ruined when that happens.

 

[Bobbsy]

Yup. Every step away from the original performance may bring things closer to perfection--but also sucks the life out of the music.

 

[nsterken]

I noticed that too. The single I'm working on now has drums I made in BFD and then I recorded the bass. For help recording further, I recorded a quick, sloppy guitar track that will simply be a ghost track for now, just to help with recording. But the sloppy, impromptu guitar work sounds amazing!

 

[grimtraveller]

I also think its a lot of WHAT compressors they use and how they used them.

While recording and mixing techniques took a quantum leap throughout the 60s, alot of the newly developed technology was still developing as the decade rolled on into the 70s and it wasn't really until the mid to late 70s and into the 80s that the full extent of what alot of these tools could do was pushed to the Nth degree {and paved the way for the digital revolution}. Therefore much of the early usage has a clarity and almost an innocence about it that naturally fades as more and more can be found that can be done.
It maybe says something about what engineers and producers of those days felt about the tools they were using in the way they used them that few, if any, mix that way anymore. Some would say that it's an ever progressing discipline.

Today, artists try to go for the most perfect take possible, and on top of that, engineers will add auto-tune to make it even more "perfect"

Yup. Every step away from the original performance may bring things closer to perfection--but also sucks the life out of the music.

Perfection is overrated. The quest for it seems to me to be like the way many English workers set themselves up for the Monday blues by over exalting the weekend.

IFor help recording further, I recorded a quick, sloppy guitar track that will simply be a ghost track for now, just to help with recording. But the sloppy, impromptu guitar work sounds amazing!

Mind you, on the home recording front, we can be just as bad. I remember when I first got involved with HR, I was struck by how high the bar was set. Having just come from a period of shitty mixes {my own ! }, private presses {so called 'vanity records'}, tax dodge recordings, outtakes that were appearing as bonus tracks on CDs and the like, not to mention the fun approach and the willingness to record 'throwaways' and put them on album releases by the 'pro' bands and artists, it came as something of a jolt to see that that kind of thing wasn't really tolerated by the home recording crowd. It felt like the demands were far higher than in the pro world. I remember RAMI doing a great thread on it a couple of years ago.
I guess it's been both a good thing and a bad thing. In one sense, it's taken some of the lightness and brevity out of recording and creating and added an unnecessary kind of pressure. But on the other hand, it's pushed many of us to strive not for perfection, but for excellence. So I both enjoy and can be irritated by the paradox.

 

[chuckduffy]

grim - I hadn't noticed that aspect of the mp3 forum. in general people seem to focus on mix aspects such as tone, frequency balance and instrument levels. I post lots of tunes and get great input in those areas. i dunno maybe it's different for other people.

I think some folks (generally the ones who dont hang there on a regular basis) get wowed by cookie cutter 'big drums' and the like, but for the most part people seem to be open to just about anything

 

[Bobbsy]

Just to expand slightly, I notice that this trend is going full circle and affecting live performances too.

People are getting so used to the sterile, perfect, over compressed sound that they're now demanding it in live situations. Instead of the exciting, raw, unpredictable live sound, nowadays through the magic of click tracks, time code, auto tune, line array speakers with cardioid sub arrarys, etc. etc. concert sound is going the same direction.

 

[grimtraveller]

grim - I hadn't noticed that aspect of the mp3 forum. in general people seem to focus on mix aspects such as tone, frequency balance and instrument levels. I post lots of tunes and get great input in those areas. i dunno maybe it's different for other people.

I think some folks (generally the ones who dont hang there on a regular basis) get wowed by cookie cutter 'big drums' and the like, but for the most part people seem to be open to just about anything

You're right there, that aspect of things has definitely eased off but when I first got involved at the end of 2009 it was something I really picked up on. In a subliminal way, it was good for me, it really shook up some of my ideas and over a two year period, had me reconsidering a whole bunch of mixes I'd been doing since 2006 with the result that last year, I just decided to do them again. About 100 of them ! So I've been painstakingly doing that in addition to a similar number of new stuff.
But interestingly, it wasn't specifically the MP3 forum that I detected that high bar from. In fact, it was rarely the MP3 forum. It was underlying in pretty much every forum. It came across in numerous threads, discussions, debates, fights........it was just this unspoken high bar that I don't recall coalescing into one particular statement, but the feeling was definitely there.

 

[Nickelthrower]

Greetings,

I'd have to agree. I recently walked out of a George Benson concert because everything was so over processed as to make it unlistenable. The kick drum was so heavy that the drummer from Lamb of God or Dimmu Borgir could have just as easily sat down and played and would have been happy with it. Most people would be shocked to hear what a real drum set in live room sounds like as what they are currently presented with in no way relates to the real instrument.

Sad.

 

[chuckduffy]

Okay, talking mixing here...

Why is it that when I listen to recordings from the band "The Who", such as, "Join Together" or "Who Are You", "We Won't Get Fooled Again", or even "Pinball Wizard" they sound SO much bigger, livelier, in your face like you're at the show, front row compared to modern recordings, such as Foo Fighters, Third Eye Blind, Green Day, any loud rock act or loud pop recording?

The music/album I'm working on now sounds like a mix between Third Eye Blind and The Who. I want my mixes to sound lively like The Who recordings. To me, the modern recordings just sound SO subdued and flat compared to The Who recordings. Why is this?

As others mentioned - compression/limiting is part of the problem, etc. BUT - if you are going it alone, recording and mixing on a computer relying on virtual instruments (BFD etc), DI, amp sim, etc - you are going to have a really tough time trying to get anywhere near the who sound.

 

[mixsit]

Greetings,

I'd have to agree. I recently walked out of a George Benson concert because everything was so over processed as to make it unlistenable. The kick drum was so heavy that the drummer from Lamb of God or Dimmu Borgir could have just as easily sat down and played and would have been happy with it. Most people would be shocked to hear what a real drum set in live room sounds like as what they are currently presented with in no way relates to the real instrument.

Sad.

'Laddies' and gents, Tonight costarring and appearing with KickDrum, please welcome..'