Question for music makers

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At this point the subject then becomes what is a song writter? any monkey can pen lyrics to a track. But whether it is good or bad is the matter I think we are speaking of. What constitutes being a song writter? If people like my songs. There are a billion people who have songs written.
"A song is, by definition, the application of words to music." Then according to this definition anyone with a pencil pad and cassette is a song writter.

I know there is more to it than that but my point is any effort in the production of music is positive. I do agree about changing the meaning of words. If you ask most people have no idea what the producers job is but everybody i talk to is a producer. Me I make half ass attempts at emulating sounds that come out of instruments and arranging them. That way no one can call me a lier. :D :D lol
 
Any monkey may be able to pen lyrics or produce sound, but they still aren't songwriters and my publisher has a dumpster of tapes and cds emptied every few days that were submitted by such "songwriters". If someone's writing for pleasure or to amuse themselves, more power to them. But don't go to a journeyman electrician and claim to be an electrician because you can change a lightbulb.

I do understand what you're saying, and maybe we're talking about two different things. I don't know a thing about music production, but that wasn't the subject of the question. It was the use of technology in songwriting. Daniel Langlois is a great songwriter and a great record producer. He does both very well, but I think he would tell you that songwriting and music production are two very different disciplines, though they overlap.

Not as though any of this really matters. Tomorrow morning I'll go back to work and be inundated with people who want publishing contracts because they can run a sequencer. Best wishes.
 
Greetings.

Seeing that I am the keyboardist for a good part of what Sigma9 has/had posted on Guitar.com, I think my introduction and post here may be of interest to some of you.

(my introduction)

I'm TommyGun, and I am keyboard player (and no I don't need to go to keyboarders anonymous, at least not yet anyway).

(my post)

To Sigma9, bro, if someone has the same sounds as you, well, either they are a genius, or a poser! Seriously, no one mixes sounds like you and if they could, they wouldn't be original. It's how the same sounds are used in different combinations that usually makes them actually sound totally different. Come on, you know the tricks I speak of.

Now, to the rest, about using technology from just _one_ keyboardist's point of view. (Just flame me and no else OK?)

I personally find Cakewalk (or comparable) and the virtually limitless sounds of a keyboard invaluable tools to convey my ideas to say, Sigma9. There is currently no other way in this world that I know of where I can mix the sounds that I do, as readily as I do, so I can get the piece over to him for review, as quickly as I do.

If you can tell me another way that's as cost-effective as this, I'll buy it.

I mean I currently can't change a drum kit for a piece any easier than by changing a value of a combo box to switch kits and see how it changed the feel of the tune. If I had a real musician in that situation, I would have lost my idea by the time he/she rearranged the drumset. The same goes for every other instrument type I can think of.

Some instruments are arguably less difficult to switch on the fly (like a wind instrument) but when you're genre is as open as a keyboardist's is, why not use the technology, at least to experiment and explore your mind to let the piece grow and evolve?

So, to me, these tools are the sketchpad for an musical artist. It's where you can try things, experiment in ways you never imagined. Personally, I don't think I'd ever hear some of the melodies or chord changes I've written if I didn't have these tools in hand.

In the end I _still_ play the hardest melodies LIVE. In the end I still play the most passionate, striking part of the piece LIVE as I can't always get Cakewalk to do that. I'll never be able to replace _that_. Hell, sit it me down in front of a 9 foot baby grand, and I'll find something to play LIVE ... always. =)

In the end, yes _real_ musicians rule. There is no way to get a computer or keyboard to improv and feed off of you like a real-to-life human could. But ... until I have those musicians in front of me to feed off of, these tools are really the next best thing (thank you Roland!).

Peace.

- TommyGun
 
I love good question! This one was a doosie!

well thanks everyone for your posts and ideas and feelings on this matter. Since I posted this question, ill answer it as well.
The fact that I will agree with my good friend and music compatriot TOMMYGUN, has far more then to do with me being Jaded...

I have personally used music in a box several times to record songs. Songs with lyrics and instumental music as well.They are damn good songs! Could they be played live? You bet your ass they could. Granted I dont write songs for some publisher, I make them for me first and everyone else second. I hope to god that never changes, if it does, well then slap me silly and call me areosmith! For those of you who think that maybe someone who uses TECH is less then a true songwriter, your not seeing the big picture. If it wasnt for the TECH of my instruments, I wouldnt be a 3rd of the musician I am today. I dont understand how the word "cheating" got into this. I play bass on the keyboard far better then I could ever on a real bass. This is surely a "choice" not "Cheating". To me the only real thing lost by tech is its inability to "improvise". One certainly couldnt use signals on stage to let the laptop running cakewalk know to play the ending several more bars. If someone said to me, " well I can get you gigs anywhere, but you cant improvise on your songs, or you can be a Improvising star everynight to the bugs in your carpet", sorry dudes Id rather use the tech to play out. I guess people dont care if your music is any good, just as long as you have 3 or 4 other losers on stage with you. Ill never understand that.
 
I'm not sure how the word "cheating" re using technology got into the discussion, and if people took my posts to imply that, I apologize. My position very simply is that there is a difference between songwriting and music production. While we can use technology to assist in the process of writing songs and to make it more listenable to a wider audience, the song itself must come from the writer, and no amount of technology is going to turn nothing into something. Different strokes for different folks or whatever other cliche works.
 
Great thread boys and girls!!
I have used canned stuff in a couple of ways while writing. I have a Yamaha Kbd with "autochord" function, which is very easy to use when I'm just looking for inspiration. I can't play keyboards worth a **** so I need a lot of help. I have written a couple of fine songs that way, but for making demo's I would never consider it!!
For demo's I start w/ Drums and Bass with a Boss DR-5, writing both parts and stringing together the loops. Here's where the artistry comes in. It takes some finesse and creativity to make them come out sounding like anything a guy would want to put his name on, but it can be done. I've had more than one drummer friend ask "who was on the session?", usually followed by "sounds like so-and- so" The reason it sounds like so-and-so is because I worked with that guy for a number of years and owe my druming concept to him. Canned parts? maybe up to a point , but it's like canned anything, in the hands of a person with some knowledge of "cookery" You can end up with some tasty results.
As my wife , "Biscuit Woman " says, It's all in the spice"

chazba
 
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