Question about volume.

Fims

Fims

New member
When producing (and mixing) what volume is best to keep it under.

I read sonusman's mixing techniques and he says this

"I would recommend that you record a 1KHz test tone on your system, and play back that test tone through the same D/A converters you will use to monitor your mixes. With the test tone recorded at -6db digital full scale, use a dB meter and turn up your monitors until that test tone is at about 85db with a C weight on the meter. I am not kidding"

Can anyone put this in easier terms to understand? As Im completely oblivious to mixing instrumentals and such.


I have a stereo connected to my PC (no monitors till january) that goes from -85db - 0

and I use Ableton as a DAW. So how would I determine at which volumes to mix... Thank you!

Just need a simpler explanation.


ALSO. How loud should the mixdown be before the master?
 
In the quote two kinds of dB are used, dBFS (full scale, digital audio level in you computer etc.) and dB SPL (sound pressure level, the acoustic power of actual sound). You need an SPL meter to measure the acoustic volume at the listening position. The dB markings on your stereo are the attenuation values of the volume control.
 
"I would recommend that you record a 1KHz test tone on your system, and play back that test tone through the same D/A converters you will use to monitor your mixes. With the test tone recorded at -6db digital full scale, use a dB meter and turn up your monitors until that test tone is at about 85db with a C weight on the meter. I am not kidding"
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I'd first off highly recommend pink noise at more like -20dB(FS)RMS as opposed to a 1kHz tone at -6dBFS... C-weighting for sure - and a slow response.

Can anyone put this in easier terms to understand? As Im completely oblivious to mixing instrumentals and such.
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That's broken down about as simply as it can be...

Try this if it helps -- http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/index_files/Calibrating_Your_Monitoring_Chain.php
 
Thanks for the replies! I'm still kind of confused haha but I'll look way more into it this weekend and then some. Gonna do a little more research on dB.

Edit: Ok I get it now. I just need that meter to calibrate a relative volume for my stereo/amp speakers.


So once I get that, I mix using that volume right?


I've also heard that a mixdown track should be no more than -6dB.

When I produce my songs it usually ends up peaking around -5dB on Ableton, then I Brickwall the song and get about 2-3dB of gain reduction, but it still comes out at way lower volumes than commercial stuff. : \
 
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Those instructions were for calibration you monitoring system. It has nothing to do with the volume of your mixes, other thanking your monitors set the same every time will give you a better idea of how loud everything is relative to what you are used to.

The reason your mixes are quieter than commercial releases is because they haven't been mastered yet. That's a separate process from mixing, you should not worry about the overall volume during the mixing process.
 
Somebody actually read that old sonusman ramble? :eek:

Yes yes. It was meant to establish a consistent level for the monitors, not a level for the mix to the mixdown deck.
 
Massive Master said:
I'd first off highly recommend pink noise at more like -20dB(FS)RMS as opposed to a 1kHz tone at -6dBFS.
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Exactly. Sine waves are not useful for setting acoustic volume levels because the level displayed by an SPL meter can vary by 20-30 dB or even more as the meter is moved only a few inches in any direction.

--Ethan
 
I feel bad for not adding for clarity -- Sine waves are great for applications where you need a steady voltage -- Calibrating meters, preamps, converters, etc., etc., etc. "Noise" is better for "in-air" calibration for the reason Ethan mentioned and more.
 
My general rule is that 90% of the time I mix at the same volume as a normal conversation between 2 person. That's my guideline. But it's also important to vary the volume too. I can go super lower for a few minutes and then louder than my general volume (mentioned above). This way you hear what's really going on with your balance and how your mix is "gluing".

as for the level in the master bus: I try never exceeding peaks over -12/-10. if one time or 2 it goes around -6, I'll not worrying that much, though. It leaves plenty of headroom for the mastering engineer. Remember that if it's already squashed in the last bits, your mastering engineer will have little to do. Also that's just good sense gain staging to not go full scale in your master bus.

Hope it helps.
 
Ethan Winer said:
Exactly. Sine waves are not useful for setting acoustic volume levels because the level displayed by an SPL meter can vary by 20-30 dB or even more as the meter is moved only a few inches in any direction.

--Ethan
Click to expand...

I thought the suggestion to use C weighting for a 1k tone was amusing.
 
I've read the Bob Katz articles.

Without getting into a discussion about the K-system per se, does my following list summarize the calibration of monitors?


1 Choose your "K" - say k20.

2 Play pink noise at -20dBFS (for K20).

3 Meter (C weighted, slow) at the listening position.

4 Adjust monitors to yield 83dB SPL at the listening position.

4 Process could be repeated for other K, maybe marking appropriate pot positions on the amp level control for each K

Sound about right?
 
Sounds right but he recommends K-14 for "normal" music styles. You would only use K-20 for classical music or styles that require lots of dynamic range.

The idea is to keep your monitoring level consistent so you don't have to labor over levels. His philosophy is that when your monitoring is calibrated correctly, you will never have to glance at a meter because your ears will tell you when the level is right, particularly on vocals.

Keep in mind this system was developed from and based upon film sound calibration for dialog.

Cheers :)
 
Mo Facta said:
Sounds right but he recommends K-14 for "normal" music styles. You would only use K-20 for classical music or styles that require lots of dynamic range.
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Yes, I used K-20 just as an example. Actually, K-14 would likely be appropriate for a lot of classical music - not everything has the dynamics of a large-scale symphonic production.
 
The way i read the post i think he is asking how loud to have the speakers to listen to mix, for that the best rule of thumb is if you have to shout/raise your voice to the guy next to you, you are mixing to loud. Its fine to crank the mix for short periods when looking for certain details. For the mixdown the -6dB peak is good, gives the mastering engineer lots of headroom to work. It also sounds like you are applying some peak limiting and things on the mix, i would be careful adding these things as they are not necessary at the mixing stage. If you have some bad peaks I would manually edit them or look at your initial signal you may have your pre-amp to hot or the vocalist to close to the microphone.
 
Gain staging...Kick -6 to -8, snare same..from the kick and snares levels balance everything from there in reference to Kick and snare.
 
Adam Tocholke said:
The way i read the post i think he is asking how loud to have the speakers to listen to mix, for that the best rule of thumb is if you have to shout/raise your voice to the guy next to you, you are mixing to loud. Its fine to crank the mix for short periods when looking for certain details. For the mixdown the -6dB peak is good, gives the mastering engineer lots of headroom to work. It also sounds like you are applying some peak limiting and things on the mix, i would be careful adding these things as they are not necessary at the mixing stage. If you have some bad peaks I would manually edit them or look at your initial signal you may have your pre-amp to hot or the vocalist to close to the microphone.
Click to expand...


Thanks Everyone for the replies! Getting lots of great information. Yes, I was compressing and also limiting my individual tracks because of peaking, but I didn't know that limiting is done when MASTERING. So now I'm just compressing individual tracks a little bit if it is needed (specifically vocals and drums). And leaving my mix with plenty headroom for when I'm ready to master them. : )

My question has been answered. Basically How much headroom should my mix's volume have and what volume is optimal for mixing. So thanks for that!


Also, for anyone who's stumbled on the thread searching for a relative answer, I recommend the two articles Mo Facta posted in the first page.

This book has been extremely helpful and is recommended by homerecording

"Mixing Audio: Second Edition Concepts Practices and Tools"

And here is another article that was helpful with Headroom and Gain Control ETC.

EDIT: Since I can't post URL (Don't have 10 posts yet lol) Just google "emusician max headroom"
 
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