M
merlinguy
New member
I am pretty sure I saw this info somewhere, but can't seem to retrace my steps. Is Quantegy 407 susceptible to sticky shed?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
merlinguy,
Welcome!
All the info you never wanted to know about SSS is appropriately on a "sticky" at the top of this forum...https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=228067
Yes, 407 is susceptible....from the 70's on through the 80's and even into the 90's. General rule of thumb is that if it is Quantegy-branded it is probably okay after 1994/1995, but the even better rule of thumb is stay away from used tape. Cough up for new tape.
Not really anything quite like 407 available new. Closest would be RMGI LPR35. It is on the 1mil base like 407 but is a +6 tape like 457 as opposed to the +3 output standard of 407.
Depending on the tape width and the reel size the cost is manageable.
I just bought two 1/4" x 2500' pancakes of RMGI SM900 from US Recording Media for under $25 apiece.
What machine are you running the 407 on?
Welcome!
All the info you never wanted to know about SSS is appropriately on a "sticky" at the top of this forum...https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=228067
Yes, 407 is susceptible....from the 70's on through the 80's and even into the 90's. General rule of thumb is that if it is Quantegy-branded it is probably okay after 1994/1995, but the even better rule of thumb is stay away from used tape. Cough up for new tape.
Not really anything quite like 407 available new. Closest would be RMGI LPR35. It is on the 1mil base like 407 but is a +6 tape like 457 as opposed to the +3 output standard of 407.
Depending on the tape width and the reel size the cost is manageable.
I just bought two 1/4" x 2500' pancakes of RMGI SM900 from US Recording Media for under $25 apiece.
What machine are you running the 407 on?
M
merlinguy
New member
I have a Tascam BR20. I haven't bought the tape yet.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
407 is the wrong tape for that machine. Roll what you want (if you've got a particular reason for wanting to use a +3 tape), but the machine was designed around the 456 standard (+6 1.5mil tape), and +9 tape works well also.
I have a BR-20T...the SM900 I mentioned above is for that machine. That's a +9 tape.
SM911 or SM900 from RMGI would be my recommendation as both are on 1.5mil tape stock.
I have a BR-20T...the SM900 I mentioned above is for that machine. That's a +9 tape.
SM911 or SM900 from RMGI would be my recommendation as both are on 1.5mil tape stock.
M
merlinguy
New member
There are 10 reels of "new-sealed" available. It is Quantegy branded. I know that new means squat where SSS is concerned, but if I can get for the right price, the reels are probably worth the money.
M
merlinguy
New member
Thanks for the info. I just yesterday got 4 new reels of SM911 that I am looking forward to trying. It is good to know that SM900 is usable as well. I will likely have lots more dumb questions. Unless I can get it for what I would be willing for empty reels, I will give the 407 a pass.
Thanks
Thanks
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Is the 407 on 7" reels or 10.5"?
If it is on 7" plastic reels, the reels really aren't worth much.
If you do get it, just be careful.
No such thing...you ask, you learn, you share. Nothing but good in that. It is why I can share with you today, because I asked plenty of "dumb" questions, and I've got lots more to come!!
If it is on 7" plastic reels, the reels really aren't worth much.
If you do get it, just be careful.
No such thing...you ask, you learn, you share. Nothing but good in that. It is why I can share with you today, because I asked plenty of "dumb" questions, and I've got lots more to come!!
M
merlinguy
New member
Thanks for the welcome; The tape is on 10.5" reels but I'm going to pass. Recorded some Patricia Barber last night on a new SM911. I see no reason to take a chance on old tape.
lonewhitefly
Active member
not that you need it, but for anyone else's reference, Scotch 207 is equivalent to Quantegy 407 and is usually free of sticky-shed and readily available for cheap used.
B
Beck
Guest
Quantegy 406/407 is good stuff. You can't go wrong with it. 407 is one of my preferred tapes for mixdown. Its character is more similar to SM911 than 456. It has a softer quality to it when hit with hot levels. I use 407 (among other tapes) because I have a Tascam 22-2, which requires 1 mil tape. Quantegy 406 would be good for the BR-20 as well and would have a bit less print through since it’s 1.5 mil. If you find a good deal on unopened Quantegy branded 406 or 407 you should snatch it up.
R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
Quantegy 406/407 is good stuff. You can't go wrong with it. 407 is one of my preferred tapes for mixdown. Its character is more similar to SM911 than 456. It has a softer quality to it when hit with hot levels. I use 407 (among other tapes) because I have a Tascam 22-2, which requires 1 mil tape. Quantegy 406 would be good for the BR-20 as well and would have a bit less print through since it’s 1.5 mil. If you find a good deal on unopened Quantegy branded 406 or 407 you should snatch it up.
While the 22-2 performs slightly better with 1 mil tape, it doesn't require it. Fact is, you would be hard pressed to hear any difference when comparing 406 to 407, 456 to 457, or any 1.5 mil to 1 mil tapes of the same oxide formulation.
lonewhitefly
Active member
different tapes do have different sonic characteristics. more noticable is how they respond compared to how they sound. i experimented with different tapes mixing the same songs and Scotch 207, Quantegy 406, and RMGI 911 all respond and sound different. 207 sounded kind of "smeary" or more buttery, 406 sounded slightly compressed (you can also control the compression with your levels more easily), and 911 sounded crisp.
B
Beck
Guest
Yes Rick, you’re correct that you CAN use 1.5-mil tape. However, I follow, and recommend others follow manufacturer usage guidelines when it comes to tape for these reasons:
1) Machines such as the 22-2, 388 and Fostex R8 specify 1-mil tape because the tension is optimized for it and the transports are less robust compared to most full-size machines. Regular use of 1.5-mil tape will accelerate wear on everything from heads, to guides, to motors.
2) Since these are vintage machines it’s even more important now to baby them to keep wear and tear to a minimum. Replacement parts are limited to non-existent, depending on your model.
3) 1-mil tape gives you the best tape-to-head contact on these machines. There may be a loss in high frequency energy if using 1.5-mil tape. Whether it’s noticeable or not partly depends on the frequency content of the source and your hearing. That little edge you gain by using the specified tape becomes bigger as a machine wears.
Tascam’s guidelines (requirements) regarding tape are pretty straightforward:
The use of tapes other than those we recommend for the 22-2 will produce results that may lie outside the limits of our published specifications. The use of 1.5-mil tape is not recommended.
-Tascam 22-2 Manual, Page 2
Will throwing on a 1.5-mil tape every once in a while hurt? No, but I’m talking about best practices here over the life of the machine. I had one of my 22-2’s setup for Quantegy GP9 for a short time and it sounded great, but I decided it would be better to have the machine outlast the tape I was using, so I set it back up to 407.
R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
As far as I know, any machine will perform slightly better if set up for 1 mil tape simply because of improved head-wrap. The Tascam language above is legal speak to inform the public that the 22-2 won't meet published spec with 1.5 mil tape so as to avoid any potential law suits over the issue. I doubt that there is a warning about excessive wear, stress, or voided warranty if 1.5 mil tape was habitually used.
B
Beck
Guest
Well Rick, excessive wear and stress is exactly what the guidelines are about. Me being the curious fellow that I am, a simple "Don't do This" was never good enough for me. The points (except for #2) in my previous post are from Tascam when I asked why 1.5-mil tape isn't recommended for certain machines. It made perfect sense when it was explained to me many years ago. My point #2 is simply common sense based on the age of the machines we're working with.
Tascam is no longer concerned with warranty or lawsuits over specs (if they ever were) for these vintage machines, yet the recommendations still stand.
R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
I was involved with TEAC/TASCAM in the late 70's to the early 80's as the beta-tester for prototype & early production pieces. The personnel I had contact with during that time which included the company founder, design engineers, and marketing folk, were my sources of information. That being said, we will probably never agree on this particular subject.
B
Beck
Guest
Yes Rick, I know your background.
It's a bit perplexing to me why the concepts I've laid out seem unfamiliar to you. On the other hand, I don't know what your background is in actually servicing these machines. I've also known many TEAC/Tascam folks over the last 30 years... some understand the nuts and bolts of what’s going and some don't. So credentials aren't as important to me as the working knowledge someone can articulate in a discussion.
The bottom line is this... The 22-2 was probably the least expensive half-track ever made. It was based on a consumer model TEAC X-3. It's delicate but very capable if best practices are followed. Very simply, it takes less reel tension to achieve optimal tape-to-head contact with 1-mil tape. This was a fundamental design consideration when the 22-2 was conceived. But the physics behind tape thickness/stiffness and wear are universal and were around long before the 22-2.
It doesn't matter if we agree or not. What matters to me is that people have the info they need to get the best performance and longest life from these vintage machines. And as I previously stated, following manufacturer recommendations is more important now than ever before because we can’t run to the corner music store and buy new ones when the ones we have wear out.
Rick, you have good background and your input is appreciated, but we won't always see eye-to-eye. I'm cool with that. Keep up the helpful input!
Last edited:
R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
The delicateness of the transport is why the reel capacity was limited to 7 inches.
Dr ZEE
Anti-Pro Circles Insider
sounds like a 'bottom line' to me
btw, no backgrounds, no associations and no left-top corner titles on the paycheck have any effect on that "bottom line".
*************
a side thought to the soup:
Guys, here's what I think. If you look through the history of technology and how the "science" collides with the industry in time, you 'd have to agree on one thing: anything is questionable and thus, I'd say: "Everything shall be questioned."
And don't forget !!!!!!: AC kills an elephant, and you really don't want to have it any where near your house
Here's Thomas -The Man:
Attachments
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
How much more wear are we talking about 1mil vs 1.5mil? I have a 22-4 and a 3300SX. No manual for hte 22-4 but asusming similar to the 22-2. THe 3300SX specifically says something like "the use of 1.5 mil tapes is not recommended" or something along those lines. It is OK to use 1.5 mil on the 3300SX-2TR however, which has a 7.5/15 ips rather than 3.75/7.5 speed and a 1/2 track head. How much difference are those heads? I'm assuming the transport is the factor there.
Thing is, I have a ***lot*** of 1.5 mil tape and ***very little*** 1mil tape.
I'm not exactly putting a lot of hours on these machines, as this is strictly a hobby for me not a full time job.
I've read this thread but I'm open to more info on this. Thanks
Thing is, I have a ***lot*** of 1.5 mil tape and ***very little*** 1mil tape.
I'm not exactly putting a lot of hours on these machines, as this is strictly a hobby for me not a full time job.
I've read this thread but I'm open to more info on this. Thanks