PSP Vintage Warmer - did it help?

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rayc

rayc

retroreprobate
I decided to try the PSP Vintage Warmer 2 on this mix to find out if it was of any use. I selected the FAT option but didn't tweak anything else really.
Does it do anything for the song?
WITH VW2

WITHOUT VW2

VERSION TWO of the above request:
Hello Folks,
Does the version of the as yet incomplete song mix with the PSP Vintage Warmer 2, a limiter, smidgen of reverb and tiny touch of EQ erroneously thrown across its stereo out buss and is inadvertantly slightly louder sound better than the version of the as yet incomplete song mixthat has, foolishly, had a limiter, smidgen of reverb and tiny touch of EQ added to the stereo out buss that sounds slightly less loud?
 
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I would say yes to a degree, though I find is best used on individual instruments. Not on the master bus.

It is tough to give an opinion based on the examples, as the output level is now changed with the plug. It sounds different and louder. Is that better? I don't know. Does it sound better to you? Reduce the output level of the VW so that the output levels are the same.

This should possibly be posted in the new forum for VST's and effects.
 
Could probably Jummy but I am after the effect on the mix.
One of the effects of the plug is "louder" - it's a largely a non transparent compressor with some "tape" saturation colouring as well as high n low EQ &, I think, a mono saturate diet.
If I reduce the LOUDER it'll reduce the colouring.
 
Level match the two tracks before trying to decide which is 'better'
Louder is not an effect
cheers
 
That is one thing that always intrigues me. Why someone would think to get quality of a mix after the mix is done.

I am one to never use any type of effect after the mix. Limiters, some eq, and compression yes if needed, but to use something as a 'tape' emulator or saturation plug on the out to analog to me just seems silly to me.

I use the VWarmer myself, but never in a 'mastering' type of situation. Yes it is basically a compressor that uses saturation as an effect, but not sure I would feel right using it after a mix on the whole project. That is me though. What works for another is fine if it works. If one has to ask, then I would say that is for you to figure out for yourself. I can't possibly say what is right for anyone else.

I may change my user name to Jummy now. I like it! :)
 
Jimmy,
never is a long, long time & refers to the past, the present and the future.
You're blessed in the area of VSTs and the master bus. You've a stance formed by a variation on immaculate conception and a curiosity as to why someone else doesn't take the same.
I am silly, I do silly things. I may not follow set rules through ignorance, bliss, perversness or serendipity.
For crying out loud: I threw an effect across my, as yet unfinished, (obviously this must be the case if I'm trying things to improve it), mix as an experiment to determin whether or not it offered anything to the mix.
I asked for opinions because my ears aren't fabulous, (if they were I'd probably be inclined towards faux mastering once I learn a bit & had some listening experience).
Part of the composite effect I chose is "loudness" & that is comlicated by the colouration that the compressor inherently brings.
Reducing the "loudness" will, necessarily, effect the amount of effect the effect will have on the currently incomplete "mix".
IF I reduce the level it will reduce the audible difference.
I know that asking someone to listen beyond the loudness for the other effects of the effect is complicated and that for human ears there are various biases we've had instilled in our listening behaviour that make doing so difficult.
Throwing something across the master buss doesn't, necessarily, equate to mastering.
I'm one of the Gumby eared folk who acknowledges a lack of sophistication in their hearing and PAY for mastering to be done.
"... but not sure I would feel right using it after a mix on the whole project. That is me though. What works for another is fine if it works. If one has to ask, then I would say that is for you to figure out for yourself. I can't possibly say what is right for anyone else."
I asked for an opinion, a thought, a comment, a response - sorry, my mistake. I thought that this forum was specifically designed for folk to post a question, a snippet of audio, a thought and request a comment/opinion based on experience, perception or humour.
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be." "Look before you leap", "He who hesitates is lost". The world is full of platitudes and axioms which were designed to elevate the utterer whilst giving no opinion, idea, concept or thought that might be ridiculed, derided or laughed at - let alone agreed with or thought about.
How about..."If you've nothing to offer - offer nothing."
I'll try again:

Does the version of the as yet incomplete song mix with the PSP Vintage Warmer 2, a limiter, smidgen of reverb and tiny touch of EQ erroneously thrown across its stereo out buss and is inadvertantly slightly louder sound better than the version of the as yet incomplete song mixthat has, foolishly, had a limiter, smidgen of reverb and tiny touch of EQ added to the stereo out buss that sounds slightly less loud?
 
zipobbble said:
Level match the two tracks before trying to decide which is 'better'
Louder is not an effect
cheers
Click to expand...
Ray, this is very important if you want to A/B anything. You can turn down the volume without affecting the effect of the effect. "Louder" will always seem more appealing at first, which is why level matching is a stadanrd for comparing 2 mixes.

I'm with Jimmy on this one. I have used the VW on my bass, my kik, but never on a complete mix.
 
Well what I did was just turn down the "Vintage Warmer" track to generally match the volume on the unaffected mix. It didn't take much. Use the little volume slider in the top right of the sounddcloud player. Not an exact science obviously, but it did okay for me.

Anyway, what I'm hearing is that the Vintage Warmer is affecting the louder bits, the transients, more than the other stuff. The vocals and snare are a tad "warmer" in the affected mix. The guitars and bass, not so much. Maybe a little. Is it better? Not to me. I think I'd prefer a well done unaffected mix passed on to good "mastering".
 
rayc said:
Jimmy,
never is a long, long time & refers to the past, the present and the future.
You're blessed in the area of VSTs and the master bus. You've a stance formed by a variation on immaculate conception and a curiosity as to why someone else doesn't take the same.
I am silly, I do silly things. I may not follow set rules through ignorance, bliss, perversness or serendipity.
For crying out loud: I threw an effect across my, as yet unfinished, (obviously this must be the case if I'm trying things to improve it), mix as an experiment to determin whether or not it offered anything to the mix.
I asked for opinions because my ears aren't fabulous, (if they were I'd probably be inclined towards faux mastering once I learn a bit & had some listening experience).
Part of the composite effect I chose is "loudness" & that is comlicated by the colouration that the compressor inherently brings.
Reducing the "loudness" will, necessarily, effect the amount of effect the effect will have on the currently incomplete "mix".
IF I reduce the level it will reduce the audible difference.
I know that asking someone to listen beyond the loudness for the other effects of the effect is complicated and that for human ears there are various biases we've had instilled in our listening behaviour that make doing so difficult.
Throwing something across the master buss doesn't, necessarily, equate to mastering.
I'm one of the Gumby eared folk who acknowledges a lack of sophistication in their hearing and PAY for mastering to be done.
"... but not sure I would feel right using it after a mix on the whole project. That is me though. What works for another is fine if it works. If one has to ask, then I would say that is for you to figure out for yourself. I can't possibly say what is right for anyone else."
I asked for an opinion, a thought, a comment, a response - sorry, my mistake. I thought that this forum was specifically designed for folk to post a question, a snippet of audio, a thought and request a comment/opinion based on experience, perception or humour.
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be." "Look before you leap", "He who hesitates is lost". The world is full of platitudes and axioms which were designed to elevate the utterer whilst giving no opinion, idea, concept or thought that might be ridiculed, derided or laughed at - let alone agreed with or thought about.
How about..."If you've nothing to offer - offer nothing."
I'll try again:

Does the version of the as yet incomplete song mix with the PSP Vintage Warmer 2, a limiter, smidgen of reverb and tiny touch of EQ erroneously thrown across its stereo out buss and is inadvertantly slightly louder sound better than the version of the as yet incomplete song mixthat has, foolishly, had a limiter, smidgen of reverb and tiny touch of EQ added to the stereo out buss that sounds slightly less loud?
Click to expand...

Um, I did have something to offer; My opinion. I did not judge you for yours.

I did not comment on the way it sounded to me because it really is not for me to judge. I stated that and was not trying to say anything to piss you off.

You are the one who gave me my new nickname. :)
 
I think the whole mix sounds fatter and thicker, and to me better. Sure it's louder but I can hear there's some color being added. I'm no pro when it comes to master buses and I'm aware of all the leave compression to the mastering engineer that people say. But I love adding a CA2A to the master for some of that harmonic distortion that seems to glue everything together. I've also heard people write that they do the mix the way they like it then just get the masterer to tweak it ever so slightly so adding to the mix bus is not so unusual as far as I'm concerned.
 
Jimmy,
You offered an opinion but not on the matter at hand. Reread if you're not sure. I apologise for my rant but I am a little tired of reading a lot and not getting anything but pontification. There is also the ever present issue of loathing in others what one refuse to see in one's self. Perhaps I need Grim to tell me a bedtime story.
Rami,
Yeah, I know - we automatically go for louder if it's not painful but I was hoping for an almost instant response to the thing. The louder is, afterall, part of the effect. I do get it though so thanks.
Greg,
Thanks, from your ears I understand that the "warmer" effect seems to only really be happening when the compressor hits something.
Ido,
Ta mate, that was my initial impression. The more I A - B the more I'm not sure.

I wonder how many people throw something across the master/stereo buss before posting? I used to leave the mix raw but so many mixes seemed - well not mastered but touched up (a limiter & reverb) that I started doing it - peer group pressure I suppose.
 
I never pontificated! lol! I love that word now.

I merely stated my opinion and I thought I made it clear that that my opinion is not the only way. Never once was I judging what you are doing. I only stated my opinion. If that is something you find offensive, then stop asking. Sorry if I didn't fit the formula for the correct way to answer your question. I shall be flogged now..

Jeez man, I didn't sign up here to get yelled at for not giving the right answers...

:)
 
Ray, just an idea to make sure that psycho-acoustics aren't doing their thing:

Level the volumes and then make it a blind test. Don't tell people which is which and then you'll really know if people (and maybe even you if you can blind it for yourself) aren't just trying to imagine a difference.

Just an idea.
 
We use the Concrete Limiter now on all our new tunes, and sometimes the CA2A. It's no where near a mastering job like Jan would do but it does level out the mix and tends to flatten the peaks - then we just add volume in Sound Forge. I think if you have a limiter that you should at least play around to see what it does. I like to think we're experimenting and moving forward in our mixing skills.
 
I'll have to start using caps when I'm SHOUTING so that people can differentiate my tone of type. The lack of emoticons probably may be a disadvantage as well.
Blind tests are probably the way to go RAMI & reducing the level POST effect is probably the option to emply to get the effect & a 1:1 basis. Thanks for that.
Gerry,
Yep, try , test, get commentary and move forward is the aim.
 
I matched their volumes approximately and listened. I liked the sound of the top one better. It sounds like it has more clarity.
 
Hey Ray, I think I prefer the instrumental clarity of the mix with the PSP and the vocals without it on. The vocals with PSP sound a bit overcooked to me and I winced at them a little.

I guess what that's telling me is that the PSP is good for use on individual tracks, but laying it over the whole mix like a blanket just adds too much colouration. Either that or it just needs to be applied more lightly with individual tweaks rather than a preset?
 
Hello Rob,
When I get a chance I'll run another mix based on your idea.
I follow what you mean - years ago wehn I experimented with the Sonicmaximiser a bit I found it did the same thing - though was not often successful even at that.
 
A warmer sound usually means tubes. I think this works a little like the bass boost without so much difference. Both are good. Is this pre-mastering? I think a multiband compressor handled right would work better. But I'm not really a fan of devices designed to make mixes warmer or fatter or louder. Using the right tool correctly will do all those things without messing the mix up for any mastering engineer. Whatever you do, don't send this to a mastering engineer with any of this shit on it. So save the one without. Good Luck.
Rod Norman
Engineer

rayc said:
I decided to try the PSP Vintage Warmer 2 on this mix to find out if it was of any use. I selected the FAT option but didn't tweak anything else really.
Does it do anything for the song?
WITH VW2

WITHOUT VW2

VERSION TWO of the above request:
Hello Folks,
Does the version of the as yet incomplete song mix with the PSP Vintage Warmer 2, a limiter, smidgen of reverb and tiny touch of EQ erroneously thrown across its stereo out buss and is inadvertantly slightly louder sound better than the version of the as yet incomplete song mixthat has, foolishly, had a limiter, smidgen of reverb and tiny touch of EQ added to the stereo out buss that sounds slightly less loud?
Click to expand...
 
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