Problems with my Pro Tools Machine?

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willhart

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I have a new Desktop for Protools it has....

AMD FX 6 Core CPU, with Extra Copper Core Cooling
64GB Ram
I have 3 large SATA drives installed in it.
I have a cheap AGP 2GB Graphics Card installed in it running 2 Monitors.
I run USB Mouse and Keyboard,
I have an Avid MBOX interface which is USB Powered
I run and M Audio KeyRig USB Keyboard which is USB Powered.
Everything has the latest drivers and is supposedly running correctly.

Mostly it runs beautifully and the CPU monitor has never registered more than 30% CPU Usage. I have layered up many Audio Tracks and some Midi and Instrument Tracks with good results.

However occsaionaly the whole thing becomes very unstable and crashes. When it Crashes the PC apears to still be on but goes black screen, it doesn't respond to anything and can't be woken up or even turned off. Even holding in the power button does not cause it to switch off or reset. The only way to get it restarted is to disconnect the power cable or turn off the plug!

Usually once it has crashed once, it remains unstable if i re-start and go back to what I was doing in pro Tools, it just keeps crashing again, often at the same point in the song or recording process. If I give up and come back another day it will be OK again!

The crashes seem to happen mostly when I am using the USB powered Keyboard to record a midi part, or at least when the USB Keyboard is powered up.

I am suspecting that the Power supply is not man enough to operate all the hardware i am running.

The PSU is supposed to be 500W which I think should be OK? However it was a very cheap deal on the PC from a retailer on AMAZON UK and I suspect that one area they would have saved money may be the CPU.

I would love to know wghat people think or any suggestions.

Any advice much appreciated.

Will :)
 
500W with three mechanical drives does seem low. If it were a good quality PSU, you would probably be ok. Do you know which PSU you have?

Check out this link for a calculator to help determine your power requirements: -

eXtreme Power Supply Calculator
 
Who built it?
I'd have them check the CPU heatsink and any others that there might be.
Does sound a lot like overheating.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Who built it?
I'd have them check the CPU heatsink and any others that there might be.
Does sound a lot like overheating.
Click to expand...

Doesn't CPU overheating give you complete screen freeze rather than a black screen?

Edit - that said, recurrent problems could indicate residual heat building up.
 
jonny deep said:
Doesn't CPU overheating give you complete screen freeze rather than a black screen?

Edit - that said, recurrent problems could indicate residual heat building up.
Click to expand...

Mmm, this suggests I'm wrong about that: -

Hipatic: CPU Overheating: Symptoms, Causes and Solutions

I was thinking of screen freezes I've had when overclocking.

OP - maybe you can try downloading a CPU temp monitor (e.g. CPUID - System & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting) and check whether you're overheating.
 
I'm not sure if there's a hard fast rule, but the fact that the machine remains unstable once it has crashed made me think of overheating.

Could be wrong of course, but OP, next time it crashes just pull the power and let it sit for half an hour.
See if it's unstable when you next power it up.

You could download a temperature monitor app to rule it out, if nothing else.
 
I think I may have thrown you all off with the "Remains Unstable Comment"

I guess it isn't unstable as such, the PC will be working fine again for all normal apps, but if I go back to recording in Pro Tools, normaly using the MIDI Keyboard in particular it will crash again. The problem has prety much always occured when i'm trying to lay down a keyboard part.

Usually recording Audio with the MIDI Keyboard switchd off it is fine. Nest Time it crashes I will try switching off the MIDI Keyboard and do some Audio recording to see if it is OK with that.

I am not seeing the normal signs of overheating, the system does not fail slowly, it does not slow down, it just happens instantaneously. The fan is not running excessively and I can feel no undue heat on the case, in fact it has got hotter dealing with other programs and has not crashed.

If 500W is only just adequate for my hardware, and bearing in mind that this is a cheap no-brand power supply as far as I can see, although it is supposed to be 500W, that is still my biggest suspician. I have used the online Calculators and they suggest about 400W should be enough, but they only allow me to select the number of USB devices, I guess a Music Keyboard and Audio Interface may draw more current from USB than a mouse or Keyboard?
 
willhart said:
I think I may have thrown you all off with the "Remains Unstable Comment"

I guess it isn't unstable as such, the PC will be working fine again for all normal apps, but if I go back to recording in Pro Tools, normaly using the MIDI Keyboard in particular it will crash again. The problem has prety much always occured when i'm trying to lay down a keyboard part.

Usually recording Audio with the MIDI Keyboard switchd off it is fine. Nest Time it crashes I will try switching off the MIDI Keyboard and do some Audio recording to see if it is OK with that.

I am not seeing the normal signs of overheating, the system does not fail slowly, it does not slow down, it just happens instantaneously. The fan is not running excessively and I can feel no undue heat on the case, in fact it has got hotter dealing with other programs and has not crashed.

If 500W is only just adequate for my hardware, and bearing in mind that this is a cheap no-brand power supply as far as I can see, although it is supposed to be 500W, that is still my biggest suspician. I have used the online Calculators and they suggest about 400W should be enough, but they only allow me to select the number of USB devices, I guess a Music Keyboard and Audio Interface may draw more current from USB than a mouse or Keyboard?
Click to expand...

I think first and easiest step, then, is download a temperature monitor app like the one I linked above, keep an eye on it and make your computer crash. If it goes above maybe 55C (have a look online for ideal temperatures for your cpu), you might have an overheating issue. If it stays low, you have another problem, maybe the PSU. I wouldn't know how to confirm this, but I can heartily recommend SeaSonic PSUs if you need a replacement.
 
Thanks for all the comments, I am at work just now, when I get home I will do some more investigating using the temp monitors and such like.

Many Thanks.

Will.
 
willhart said:
I am not seeing the normal signs of overheating, the system does not fail slowly, it does not slow down, it just happens instantaneously. The fan is not running excessively and I can feel no undue heat on the case, in fact it has got hotter dealing with other programs and has not crashed.
Click to expand...

Ok, fair enough; Maybe it's not over heating after all.

Hmmm.
 
I have run Pro Tools with a reasonably heavily loaded song with lots of Plugins in use and the USB Keyboard powered up. I haven't had a crash yet. I ran the Cupid Program as Recomended, I don't really know what the values should be but the screen shot is below along with the Pro Tools usage Monitor.

I guess the 2 worrying things are the 12V voltage being down at 9.5V and the CPU fan having hit 100% a few times.

Any advise based on the below info.

System Temps.webpSystem Usage.webp
 
And here are the temps a few minutes after shuttng down PRO TOOLS and just browsing the web.

idle temps.webp
 
The only fan hitting 100% is the cpu fan, and TPMIN is hitting 92 degrees, so it's reasonable to assume TPMIN1 is cpu.
I'd be very concerned about it peaking at 92 regardless of what it is.

If you're anyway handy, remove the cpu heatsink/fan and make sure it was fitted properly.

I don't get the feeling that workload is especially important here.
A cpu with no heatsink will burn out before it even posts so I guess moderate use is just pushing your system over the edge, heatwise.

I'm guessing there's no thermal paste on the cpu/heatsink, or it's not clamped down properly.
 
Last edited:
Hi, Thanks for your advice.

I have checked, removed and refitted the CPU Fan. It seems to be fine, all clamped down and fitted with white paste.

The CPU Temp on the screenshot is listed further down under AMD-FX-6200 and peaked at 51'C. I do not know what TPMIN1 is, I was hoping somebody may have known. I am prety certain the CPU has not got up to 91'C.

Despite that screen shot showing info for 3 fans, I actually only have the 1 CPU Fan which is fitted to a large Copper Core Heatsink which was an upgrade I opted for as it was supposed to keep things cool and quiet! The only other fan is the PSU fan. I don't know why it shows system fan 1 and 2? I am thinking of fitting some cooling fans to the case now though as there does seem to be warm air circulating inside.
 
willhart said:
The CPU Temp on the screenshot is listed further down under AMD-FX-6200 and peaked at 51'C. I do not know what TPMIN1 is, I was hoping somebody may have known. I am prety certain the CPU has not got up to 91'C.
Click to expand...

Hmm, yeah. I see what you mean.
I guess it's probably north or south bridge then. Both of those would have heatsinks.

The safe advice is DON'T let it get that hot again.
It's a bit annoying because if you did it'd be very easy to find out what part is getting hot and what fan is going overkill.

Case fans are definitely a good idea, but I doubt lack of them is directly responsible for the problem.
I guess I'd just remove and check all other heatsinks on the board. Something's not fitted properly.
 
Hi All,

I found this Quote about TMPIN1 on my motherboard on an MSI Forum....

I can actually answer this as this was my question a day or so ago with my board. Here is the exact quote from an MSI Tech, "Hello, if this temp is not listed as part of Hardware Monitoring in the BIOS, then it is a bogus/invalid temp readout which you can simply ignore. Thank you for contacting MSI."

Its from this thread if you want more info. http: //forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=158229.0]MSI Z77A-GD65 - TMPIN1 high temperature

As all other temperatures seem fine this makes sense given the other info I have read. So I am thinking Temperatures and cooling are fine.

Back to the PSU I think. Still Might fit a case fan or two for good measure, as this might stop the CPU fan working so hard and being noisy for short bursts.
 
Damn. I forgot just how straight forward and simple the world of PCs can be.

Still, I would tread very carefully. Your symptoms do match overheating and I'm not sure that a bogus reading would swing like that.
92degrees seems like an appropriate high for a machine that has crashed so don't write it off until you know for sure.

I get what you're saying about the other temperatures being fine, but that's the thing with these isolated chips and heatsinks.
Your CPU will go straight a hundred without a heatsink, but the northbridge will be fine.

I'm not saying I'm right; I'm just saying be careful. :)

I don't want to encourage you to poke around inside a live machine, but maybe physically checking the temp of each heatsink wouldn't be a terrible idea.
 
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