Problem with mixes played on stereos

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Nadolski
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Michael Nadolski

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When mixing songs, everything sounds great using Tannoy near-field monitors. However, when I burn a sample CD of the mix, the songs contain way too much low frequency (kick drum, low toms, and bass guitar).

I have adjusted the mix by bringing down the faders on the bass drum, toms, and bass gtr, almost to the point where I cannot hear it during the mix, but still the end result is still too much low frequency, although somewhat better.

I would rather not cut the Low EQ on each channel when mixing. I'd rather not use any EQ on anything if at all possible.

Should I use a graphic equalizer before the studio monitor power amp and boost the low frequencies a bit during the mix so as to "fool" my ears??

Any other solutions short of buying new near-field monitors?

Mike
 
Try scooping out 1 or 2 dB from those individual tracks (kick,toms, bass, rhythm guitars) around 250 to 350 hz with a "Q" around 2 to 2.5 octaves wide. It'll help tame the "mud" range.
 
OUt of interest: Which tannoy nearfields are you using?
 
My near-field monitors are about 5 years old. They are Tannoy CR-650's.

If I cut 1 or 2db on the kick, toms, bass gtr, etc, as stated above, then I also lose that sound when I am mixing.

Do I need an monitor upgrade? Or can can I get away with adding an EQ before the monitor power amp?

Thanks,

Mike
 
I'm assuming the Tannoy's are in phase....
Have you looked at the room you are mixing in? Tried placing any traps in the corners nearest the monitors? I've had rooms play tricks with mixes like this, but have been able to control them with some added bass traps or panels.
If you don't have acces to a decent spec. analyzer and a noise generator (Insert Kenny G. joke here),walk around the room while the mix is playing...if you hear major differences in the low end, then you might need to tame your room a bit.
 
Since near-fields are designed to be close to the engineers ears, how does the "room" affect the mix??

Mike
 
Near-fields are designed for close range monitoring.
Mike, have you tried playing the sample c/d in other formats
such as car radio,personal c/d player or home stereo? Do you have the same muddiness on these other formats?
 
Yes, most decent players play the CD with the same amount of too much low-end. Highs and mids sound pretty good. Its not that the sound is really muddy, its more plain-old too much low end, kind of "boomy" (even with bass boost controls off and bass controls cut!).

Mike
 
If you still have your original track recording,prior to mixdown to your C/D ,try compressing the kick and bass to cut off unwanted frequencies below 60hz.
 
Michael Nadolski said:
Since near-fields are designed to be close to the engineers ears, how does the "room" affect the mix??

Mike
Click to expand...
Be forgiving here, I have only the vaguest recollection of a discussion concerning this very problem when I built my first control room. Since low freq. are what are involved here, and since wavelenghts for 50 and 60 hz waves are quite long, depending upon your room dimensions, complete propagation of these waves could be occuring anywhere in the room. If you are getting some cancellation from weird reflections, this can cause the agonizing situation you are experiencing...my mixes sound good, but are really boomy on other sources. This drove me absolutely nuts with my first control room until I mounted bass traps in the corners of the room.
A couple of questions:
1. Do you have high ceilings in the room that you are mixing in?
2. Leave the mix running and leave the room. Is the bass extremely prevalent?
3. What does your mix sound like from the board into a decent set of phones?
Tough prob without hearing the room, but this is my best guess.
 
I actually moved rooms recently because I thought that might help the mix problems I was having with the bass. I created a smaller room with a smaller wood ceiling (6 foot high) and carpeted almost the entire room. You'd think this would have been better because the "soft" surfaces would have soaked up the higher frequencies and I would have compensated by boosting the higher freq's, but its still low-end heavy.

I don't really like to use phones for mixing as they always have a poor response and a real heavy low-end, I'll try them anyway.

I mixdown to stereo to my computer. Should I cut low eq and/or compress the low-end on the wav file? How will this affect the overall sound?
 
Well you've got me stumped. I'm not into the compu recording scene so I am unsure as to the overall effect on the.wav file. I suspect that judicious cutting of EQ (around 60Hz) would be preferable unless you have a multi-band compressor. And no, I'm not a big proponent of head-phone mixes either..although anything that works and creates a good mix that you are happy with...well....works! Your room description seems to be a pretty mix-friendly environment so I guess we can rule out the room effect. Anybody else have any info for Michael?
 
Its very possible the room is somewhat part of the problem, as the ceiling may be trapping or reflecting certain frequencies.

I will try cutting the lo-eq on the mix, although in order to get that to happen, I will not be able to monitor the computer output returns, only the out-going signal from the mixer so I can get a good mix using my ears and mix what I "think" I am hearing.

I will also try processing (compress/cut lo eq) and mastering the final wav file after the mix to see if I can solve the problem this way.

Anyone have any additional ideas?

Thanks everyone for your input.

Mike
 
I'm not sure what software you're using , but pretty much sure you can compress the .wav file below 60hz and edit or reduce the "boom tail" sine wave on your pc.
 
first thing I would like to ask is:
how do other cds sound on your system?

If creed , and celine dion etc sound good in you room then you do not need to eq the low end.

Now if you can just match the bass that you hear on pro cds, then you should be perferctly alright.

If the cds have too little low end in your room, then you need to either eq the speakers or put in bass traps.
 
hmmmm....that's a good point. I have used more dynamic music such as Yes to check the balances and levels because that's the type of mixes I generally prefer. I can try other, more commercial sounding CD's and see what kind of bass responses I get.

Thanks everyone for your great input!

Mike
 
I know I'm stupid, but....

Can't he run a spectrum anylizer and anylize his room frequency response, then upon determining the results of the readings....use an EQ to even out the response? I know this is used in live situations quite frequently, but couldn't it be used here and get him in the ballpark?
 
Re: I know I'm stupid, but....

RockinRobert said:
Can't he run a spectrum anylizer and anylize his room frequency response, then upon determining the results of the readings....use an EQ to even out the response? I know this is used in live situations quite frequently, but couldn't it be used here and get him in the ballpark?
Click to expand...
Although it does work in a live setting; in a studio environment, using EQ used to compensate for room frequency response will introduce phase anomalies, causing more response problems than it was intended to solve in the first place!


Michael--
Using the nearfields, the room effect is diminished to a great degree. Everyone has made good suggestions so far, but from what's been described, it sounds more like a mix translation issue than a sonic problem in the room. When you mix, do you check it on more than 1 set of monitors? In addition to the nearfields, you should be checking it on Auratones (or equivalent), even a boombox! In terms of mix translation, the idea is to understand your monitoring system's frequency defiencies and compensate for them properly in the mix. For (an extreme) example, let's say I use auratones to mix on (which are essentially mid-range only) - if I tailor my mix so that it sounds rich and full on them, when I play back the mix on any other system, it will sound very bassy and trebly. The reason of course is that I erroneously tailored my mix to sound good on a monitor that is missing a great deal of low and hi-freq response - in effect, not telling me the true sound. I could still use them to mix if I don't over-compensate for their lack! (Which is why people successfully mix on NS-10s - they are sonically deficient, but the engineers using them know how to compensate for them.)

The best way to get around this and help you learn your monitoring system is to listen to reference CDs (albums of mixes that are sonically similar to the sound you're trying to acheive) as you mix. Listen to the bass response of the reference CDs and make sure your mix's bass response is balanced in a similar manner. (If the reference ain't kickin' ya in the chest, your own mix shouldn't be either!)

Another option, post an MP3 rough mix of your song and let one of us hear it on our own systems, allowing us to better hear the issue.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
 
Bruce, here's what I did (and what didn't work). I compared my mix to commercial CDs of similar stuff, and when it was as close as my ears and EQ ability could get it, I burned it to CD. The mix sounded okay as an mp3 upload that people listened to, yet it turned out way too bassy on new, cheap players with no EQ control.

So, where did I go wrong? Was I supposed to play those commercial CDs through ALL the players I was planning to test my final CD on? Before, you said my big mistake was to mix on headphones, but since I'm dealing with no stereo spread at all (only voice and acoustic guitar), I thought that I could get a good enough representation of the sound, especially the frequencies, through the cans. No?
 
Dobro...

...if you play back the mix you were happy with on car stereos, boomboxes, stereo in the living room, your freind's stereo, does it sound good (or at least reasonably well-balanced?)

The fact is, you can only do so much comparison, if you get it to sound good on a majority of sound sources, that's pretty much all you can do.... I have done mixes that shine everywhere I try them - even a freakin' clock radio! - but I take them to my singer's boombox - and it sounds bassy and treble-shy - is it the mix?, not likely - just a sonically-deficient sound player (listening to the radio on this same unit results in the same deiciencies...)

The point is, a mix CANNOT sound "stunning" everywhere - listen to an old Zep cd on a boombox -- Rock 'N Roll sounds like poo! Listen on a stereo, it's fine... Sometimes, it IS the player's fault!
 
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