Pretty much 97% new at recording- need help in a TON of aspects! : )

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miles_accordion

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Ok- Hi my name is Miles! First of all- to help anyone who is willing to help me- I figured I'd start by addressing what little experience I have for starters:
1. One of my bands had a 4 song studio demo EP recorded in a home studio with a guy who recorded us a decent demo using pro-tools. So I'm slightly familiar with it- seen Pro Tools before, etc. I've been recorded with it- however have not recorded things totally by myself/been the one doing the actual recording with it. I don't know if this even helps at all- I feel like it'll look a little less scary because of this, but must admit if I sat down behind a computer with Pro-Tools then it probably wouldn't help but so much I guess.
2. I still have and very seldomly use a TASCAM 4 track analog/cassette recorder. I've done your basic multi-track recordings with it- played a guitar on track one, then played a melody on a different on track 2 and simply slightly mixed it using the knobs.
This is pretty much the most experience I have. I feel like I sort've have the concept of basic recording and mixing tracks on the oldschool analog/tapes way- but as far as digital- I don't know if I could do it- but I feel like I could figure it out/get the hang out of it with help at least.

I figured I should list what equipment I do have- as one of my many concerns (I will make a list of questions/concerns at the end just following this) is deciding what I do and don't need for what I want to do, and so on. K, so here goes:
1. 4 track tascam 424mkiii is the model number on it.
2. one small diaphragm condenser mic.
3. one large diaphragm condenser mic.
4.an iMac osx lion computer. it has a decent amount of memory- as I have intentionally not downloaded on it and bought it with the intention of using it for pro-tools.
5. a Shure Beta-57a mic.
6. I have my actual instruments and their approriate amplifiers mostly (guitars, guitar amps, bass, drums, accordion, keyboard)
7. A Pro-Tools for Dummies book which I've read about the first 5 or 6 chapters of- but since I don't own Pro-Tools yet- I feel like this has been only so helpful (it seems to be the sort of book that is mostly only helpful if your doing it hands-on as you read it).

What I want to do with recording/pro-tools (To clarify- I suppose it doesn't have to be Pro-tools- but I know it's basically the latest craze/industry standard these days so to speak- so I just figured well I wanna' record high quality stuff and be in the big leagues so to speak- however I'd be open to other programs like Logic,etc. I just am under the impression/think I at least know I wanna' use Pro Tools):
1. Record drums (this is crucial to me!) A real/full drum kit- I'm simply not interested in electronic drums. I use a basic kit: bass, snare, two toms, one floor tom, hit-hats, one ride, one crash- I might use a few extra cymbals in the future- but my kit is very basic.
2. Record guitar(s) tracks
3. Record accordion tracks
4. Record bass tracks
5. Record keyboard tracks
6. Possibly record other additonal instruments in the future: possibly sax or other horns. (I don't play these but a band member does- so if I recorded someone else this would be helpful to know) and record vocals.
7. Mix and possibly master these tracks.
8. In short- I want to be fully capable of recording, mixing, and having a final product of either my band, or my own side project, etc.'s recording of a demo, EP, or LP, etc. Possibly recording other bands- but mostly I want to record my own stuff in a great quality- I want to be able to no longer worry about sinking money into studio time- and just do it myself basically.
These are my goals/wants basically!

Questions/concerns:
1. Out of what little equipment I already have- what stuff (I'm assuming the computer is good for it) is useful? Is the TASCAM at all useful to combine with the computer? Could it be ran through the computer somehow?
2. Like a lot of people- I'm not rolling in bucks- but I'd be willing to sink a decent chunk of cash (1 to 2 grand) in this over time. However, I of course am not interested in spending any more than necessary to meet my goals.
3. What version of Pro Tools is right for me/should I get? They all cost considerably way different! What will be best to use with my computer and be able to record as many tracks, instruments, etc. so I can do what I need/want to do? (There is Pro Tools 8, 9, 10, and some sorta light edition that seems kinda' popular?) I have no idea where to start with selecting which one in order to get the ball rolling!
4. What materials/books/videos might be ideal for getting started recording, mixing, editing, etc. for someone like me once I obtain whatever version of Pro-Tools is necessary for me?
5. Determining a shopping list of essential things I need- as I'm guessing to record a drum kit I'll need additional condenser mics most likely? What mics will I need? Any hardware not included I will absolutely need, etc.? I want to obtain specifically exactly what I need and only what I need in order to do these things.

That pretty much wraps it up!
Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks so much- looking very forward to responses. : )
 
Wow Miles! Great (and long) first post.

You say that the cash flow is weak so to start with may I suggest down loading Reaper HERE in stead of going for pro tools.
 
Your microphones are useful. Your computer is useful. Your Tascam is useful for giving to other people to sketch on.

Don't get hung up on ProTools if it's going to swallow a hefty % of your budget. Reaper (free, then once you decide to keep it, $60) will have everything you need. That's the full price.

You will need to get an interface with enough inputs to allow you to mic your drum kit. Others can supply you with some recommendations. Sometimes you'll get a DAW software package with it. It may even be good enough but it's often "crippleware".

You will need enough mics to mic your drum kit. You will need stands and cables. You will need monitors so you can hear what's being recorded. You will probably need room treatment of whatever room you're recording in.

Can you do all of that for $1 - $2K? Maybe, but it's not going to be particularly high quality gear. I'm not American so I don't know what prices are like over there - cheaper than where I am. I've spent almost $2k on a single microphone.

Does gear quality matter? Yes and no. Not necessarily, in the right hands. But that's not you, not yet. Recording is a skill, it takes practice. Lots of practice. Lots of learning.

Will this level of spend enable you to "reach your goals"? If this - "but mostly I want to record my own stuff in a great quality" is your goal, not a chance in hell. That's my personal opinion, others will disagree.

This is no reason not to start, however. Many people start recording and upgrade stuff over time. My best advice. Don't do incremental upgrades when you do. Go big, quality wise.

You should tell us what your existing mics are... they may be good for specific things. Hard to say unless you tell us what they are.

Welcome!
 
Save pro tools for later get Reaper for now wayyyy better starter DAW the best in our OP
 
Echo here: Reaper. Pro Tools is the 'industry standard' only because they got to the pro studios first. If you want to take tracks/productions you have done to a pro studio for additional tracking or for their engineering/mastering, then you will need PT. Most mastering houses just want your basic stem files (WAV), so there is no need to spend the greater part of your initial budget on PT at this time.

1) Audio interface. If you want to record drums (at some point), how many mics (at most) do you want to use to record them? LGyn Johns (do some research) used a 4 mic method. These days 8 mics are not un-normal. Make sure you choose an AI that has at least as many separate mic preamps/inputs as you anticipate needing in the future.

2) Monitors, acoustic treatment - the more you spend, the better the monitors'll be. You can get away with lesser monitors, and minimal sound treatment to start - just read all the tips about listening to your mixes on different systems, etc.

Don't go spending your money on a million things at one time, and research everything before buying, you'll save yourself money, time and confusion on where to start first.
With minimal recording/mixing experience, there's lots to learn.
 
Poor guy was so tuckered out with all that typing he hasn't been able to get out of bed today and come back and read the answers....
 
I'd echo everything said above with the additions of;

Adding another small diaphragm condenser for stereo micing drum overheads/acoustic guitar/stereo micing in general or picking up a pair (depending on what the SDC is you already have. For the money a pair of Oktava MK012's are pretty awesome)

Possibly something kick/bass orientated such as an AKG D112, Shure Beta 52a, Audix D6 (although, again, depending on what the LDC is you have you may be able to get away without one, but it's always worth having one in your arsenal)

4 mic's on a drum kit is ample and, when starting out, helps prevents a lot of problems that can be encountered with using more mics. A pair of SDC's for overheads, your 57 beta for snare, and then something for the kick would work a treat. for everything else you've mentioned to record, a 57, an LDC and pair of SDC's should cover all of the basis pretty well.

Reaper is cool and the fact that it's free to try for an unlimited amount of time makes it a great tool to learn on, but i am a big fan of Logic and if you've played around with garageband on your mac already it's a nice step up without too steep a learning curve.

I know it's already been said, but things like cables, stands, pop filters, headphones are all things that can easily be missed so make sure to bare these things in mind when pricing stuff up.

As MikeB said, an Audio Interface that will work for you will require some extra thought, but there's plenty of discussion all over these boards on the subject so it's well worth having a read a seeing what fits your needs.

The room treatment side of things gets bought up a lot, and for good reason, and if you've got some basic DIY skills then there's a lot of threads about building your own bass traps etc that are well worth a read as well.
 
ok great! Hmmmm- well for starters thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer my questions and help me out with the advice- I greatly appreciate it! Phew! Ok- so I guess first thing is first- apparently there is this great alternative to pro tools- that from what I understand is basically the same thing in most/a lot of aspects but free at first- and ultimately much cheaper ($60) later on. If I'm not getting over ahead of myself- in a few more months when I'm ready to start gathering some initial starting equipment other than what I already have- I'm guessing a really good solid starting point would be the interface (I feel like I basically understand what this is- however whenever I read about it- no one seems to ever put it in plain english)- it sounds to me it is basically an essential piece of equipment to have so that you can take all your non-digital inputs/or analog stuff (such as any instrument your recording with a mic- like accordion or a drum kit, etc.) and plug them into your audio interface in order to get it onto the the computer your recording with? If this is a correct/accurate description- I really liked most of this article on here about them that was "How To Buy a Recording Interface" (I'd link you to it- but I get this error saying I have to have made 10 posts on here in order to do so?)- but basically it said know/have this: your computer, determine your interface, determine/choose your audio software, and then choose/have your mics and cables. Because I feel like- ok I know my software is gonna' be either Reaper or Logic Pro (I say Logic Pro- because it turns out one of my bands mates owns it- and on top of that- one of my other band mates took a few short starter courses on it- so i feel like that would be a good choice someday if not initally- because that way if/when i do a recording project with them- we will sorta all be on the same page to some extent). Obviously- I have my computer (which is fairly new actually- so luckily this is the one aspect I'm not worried about). So I'm thinking in terms of a starting strategy- I could keep reading the guides that came for free with this Reaper program online in the mean time- and when I have the cash I should look into picking/purchasing an audio interface- and then additional condenser mics so that I have enough to record drums (I have two so far- so I guess I need at least two more as like reasonable amount to start with). Does this sound like a valid conclusion/reasonable plan as of so far???? Or am I missing a crucial point here?

Thanks so much for the input- in the mean time- I'm gonna' start looking into this Reaper thing- which I'm surprised I've never even heard of- looks pretty intense! : )- Miles.
 
Hi Miles and welcome.
First thing. Get stuck in! Go and buy an audio interface of some sort, second hand will do. Getting tracks setup, ins, outs and monitoring working, setting latency values and a miryad other things cannot be learned from the book and so when you can ultimately afford your 8track AI you will spend hours totally lost as you sort things out.

If you can find one I strongly recommend an M-Audio Fast track pro as this will be future proof (tell you why if you get one).

One other little Hhorse of mine. How are you on practical electronics? Don't mean building a mixer! Just making and repairing cables, do you have a working knowledge of Ohms Law? Do you possess a digital multimeter no matter how mean? If you are delinquent in any of these areas I suggest you bone up on them and get equipped. With a lot of mics comes a lot of cables and you will be into multiple headphone monitoring before you can say "jack plug". All this stuff needs care and attention.

Lastly Miles, can I ask you to break your posts into paragraphs please? These old, tired eyes see a wall of type and grey out!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Lastly Miles, can I ask you to break your posts into paragraphs please? These old, tired eyes see a wall of type and grey out!
Click to expand...

I have relatively young eyes but even i struggled so i beg you Miles, please more paragraphs :thumbs up:

In terms of what an Audio Interface (AI) is in basic english; It is a device to convert the signal from your mic (analogue) to a signal that your computer can see and read (digital). they also work the other way around and can turn a signal coming from the computer (digital) back in to a signal that can be played back through speakers/headphones (analogue).

When looking for an appropriate AI it's worth noting that some AI's have built in mic preamps that are used to turn up the signal coming from a mic to a more usable volume. Some have Line Inputs which are setup to accept a signal coming from equipment that is already loud enough (i.e keyboards, drum machines, an external mic preamp). Some have Instrument inputs that are meant to plug things like electric guitars/bass guitars/acoustic guitars with built in electronics straight into. Some have mic and line inputs built into one socket, and some have all three built into one socket.

You also need to consider how many outputs you're going to need. Most AI's offer at least a stereo output (to plug into monitor speakers) and a headphone output, however some offer more. If you're just recording yourself this kind of output setup should be enough, but if you intend to record a couple of people at a time you may need to look at something with more outputs/headphone outputs. Something like the Maudio Fast Track Ultra offers 4 mic inputs, up to 6 line in's, and the two headphone outputs can be very useful. However, there are plenty of AI's out there so it's well worth deciding exactly what you need in terms of inputs and outputs, finding ones that meet your needs, and then looking at reviews in terms of their sound/ease of use/durability etc

miles_accordion said:
So I'm thinking in terms of a starting strategy- I could keep reading the guides that came for free with this Reaper program online in the mean time- and when I have the cash I should look into picking/purchasing an audio interface- and then additional condenser mics so that I have enough to record drums (I have two so far- so I guess I need at least two more as like reasonable amount to start with). Does this sound like a valid conclusion/reasonable plan as of so far???? Or am I missing a crucial point here?
Click to expand...

To me, this seems like a good strategy. I'd be tempted to put together a list of things you need (mic stands, cables, monitors etc) so that you can cross things off as and when you get them. i'd also suggest that to help get you better acquainted with Reaper/mixing in general that you pop on over to the Mix This threads and have a play with some of the tracks available there
 
miles, I just wanted to add that drums are a "hard" instrument to record for me. The drums I hear in my head are not the drums I hear recording in my living room. Other instruments are easier to deal with (acoustic guitar takes a little more care than others), but be prepared to be disappointed with drums for a while.

One other thing to think about is a headphone monitoring system for the players. To me that makes a big difference when tracking with a multi-piece band. I use a unit by Furman (HDS) that lets the players sortof mix their own headphones - but I got that a long time ago and am not sure what the options are now.
 
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