Pretenzije feat. Žargi: "Odpoved"

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MMensch

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In another thread, rayc sort of challenged me to offer one of my tunes for review since I'm being so unrelenting in my criticism, and I guess that's fair enough. I chose one of my recently finished songs (well, it's from October '09, but I'm a notoriously slow worker). It was written and arranged together with a friend of mine who has his own band and is pretty sucessful with it locally, and mixed by myself.

We've also done a live remix (done by overdriving the mixer and muting/unmuting the channels) - you can find it on the Myspace page. Any comments appreciated, though I will say that I don't intend to remix it in the forseeable future, even though I realise it's far from perfect - it was a massive effort for me at the time and I just can't be bothered.
 
Are you serious????
You had the nerve to call my song plastic, my drums artificial, and my voice energy-less, my arrangement leading nowhere??
Well, here's what I think of your song and I really wasn't pissed off at your comments to my song until I heard this piece of synthetic boredom:

1) your drums are TOTALLY plastic and remind me of an old typewriter before computers were invented. The programming is boring and old-fashioned to say the least.
2) the singer almost rocked me to sleep with his one-tone voice and I stuck till the end of the song hoping he'd finally stop.
3) your synths couldn't sound more plastic if you paid them to
4)your arrangement is devoid of highlights, that breakdown in the middle does absolutely nothing to catch the listener's attention and is no highlight. The song has absolutely no climax and is like one single tone from beginning to end. I kept waiting for the chorus, for that ray of light to appear from behind those grey clouds, alas it never came.
 
MMensch,
Less a challenge and more an invitation. Yes, it's good to know some of the work of a member offering a critique. It gives or takes gravitas dependent on the views/ideas/suggestions/criticisms offered and the qualities of the proffered work.
Members usually offer suggestions & recommendations with their criticisms along with some positive comments to encourage folk.
My comments regarding resolution & tension were with regard to the interplay of the narrative and the arrangement.
Your offering does show that you wear your Depeche Mode influences on your sleeve & T Shirt for that matter. It uses samples &/or VST/real instruments that are of the band's 1st commercial era but lacks the tension of, let's say, Human League before the Heaven 17 defection (Being Boiled, as exhibit #1, a better use of primitive synths, drum machines & narrative is hard to find - & the chord progression that would one day become fade to grey). Notwithstanding the neoprimitivism/early 80's aesthetic, the lack of dynamics could be remedied with a remix. I can't comment on the synths themselves as they live up (?) to their antecedents - I would suggest a bass freq roll off below 100Hz just to cut the boominess a little and to provide more room for the other instruments - but then again booming bass may be what you're trying to emulate.
 
Thanks for your comments Rayc, I appreciate it. I was going for warm and woolly low end, though it didn't work out quite as nicely as I would've liked. The two bass synths, along with the kick, are processed with the SPL Vitalizer, which I had enormous trouble with - most settings sounded great on my HS50ms, and terrible anywhere else - I'm still not sure what was causing such awful translation problems (I'm thinking about going parallel next time). Are you sure about cutting everything below a hundred though, that sounds a bit drastic.

Most of the problems with the dynamics can be traced to the fact that apart from the two Behringer composers on the snare/mid percussion and the cymbals, my only compressor was the Behringer Mastercom inserted across the stereo bus. For some reason, I had major trouble finding the right release setting, again mostly to do with the bass - nothing seemed to sound right, so I think the dynamics may well be actively working against me here. What's your take on the remedy though - where did I actually go wrong?

joeym said:
Are you serious????
You had the nerve to call my song plastic, my drums artificial, and my voice energy-less, my arrangement leading nowhere??
Well, here's what I think of your song and I really wasn't pissed off at your comments to my song until I heard this piece of synthetic boredom
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Look dude, it's okay if you don't like it but that's just childish.
 
joeym said:
Just put your money where your mouth is next time.
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So you're actually saying if people aren't singing praise to your stuff, they'd better make music that you dig/understand, or shut the hell up otherwise?
 
MMensch said:
So you're actually saying if people aren't singing praise to your stuff, they'd better make music that you dig/understand, or shut the hell up otherwise?
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Nope, they'd better do what I do better. You singled things out in your criticism that you can't do better. This song does not justify your criticism to my song. But if your aim was to attract attention, maybe it'll work.......
 
joeym said:
Nope, they'd better do what I do better. You singled things out in your criticism that you can't do better. This song does not justify your criticism to my song.
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So you *are* saying that. Well, I don't see things that way - I don't make music for other home recordists, I make it for the general public (i.e. everybody who cares to listen to it), and I'll will take all honest feedback equally seriously, regardless of the person's qualifications, and regardless of whether they like it or they don't. In fact, feedback from non-musicians is often even more helpful because such people are basically putting their gut feeling into words, which is invaluable.

Another thing you seem to disregard is that just because I may not be able do do something yet as a producer, it doesn't mean that I can't hear when other people get it wrong, or that my opinion suddenly doesn't count because of that. If anything, you're preventing yourself from benefiting from my observations just because it's not what you want to hear. If I said this morning that I loved your song, I strongly doubt we'd be having this conversation now.
 
so, according to your argument, all the people who commented before you all got it wrong?
It was you who responded to Ray's challenge to put something up here to justify what you critcised in my song. Your song does not justify anything you said. The fact that you accepted the challenge was your way of saying "hey look, I can do it better". I didn't get that impression listening to your song. It's you who's not "benefiting from my observations just because it's not what you want to hear". I gave you my gut feeling to your song and it wasn't to get back at you. And if that's what the general public in Slovenia wants to hear, then it's no wonder that country doesn't appear on the world map of music. I make music for myself first and if others like it, that's cool.
 
hi mmensch, i like it:):D you really have a full balanced sound too, it sounds great even through my poor computer speakers. if you are around in the future i hope you don't mind if i ask for your advice.
 
Thanks. And yes, go ahead, I'll be glad to help if I can - I don't mince words as you can see though, so consider yourself warned.

joeym said:
so, according to your argument, all the people who commented before you all got it wrong?
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Not in the slightest - it's like I said in my original post, I'm glad that people seem to enjoy your song because it's definitely an honest effort and something you obviously believe in. The fact that I don't like it doesn't mean that I have anything against you or that I don't wish you every success with it. However, I do think that beside me not liking it, there are some objective shortcomings, which I pointed out because I thought you might find my opinion equally valid and informative as you did the others'.

I understood Ray's "challenge" in a different way, namely that it was a good idea to present one's work to better understand where one is coming from. For the record, I do feel that my song is better than yours, I also feel that it sounds better, but again, this is a purely subjective thing and I don't think it proves anything in terms me being right or wrong. I was genuinely pleased with Ray's review, even though it wasn't overly positive, and even if he found more faults (as there are faults to be found, no doubt about it), I'd take all of it to heart because I'd assume, purely on the basis of what he pointed out, that he knows a thing or two about music. Now that I know he also knows a thing or two about some of my favourite artists, I'd be keen on hearing some of his stuff, but even if he never recorded a single tune, it would not cause me to take his comments any less seriously.
 
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MMensch said:
Thanks. And yes, go ahead, I'll be glad to help if I can - I don't mince words as you can see though, so consider yourself warned.
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no worries, if i'm not satisfied with it noone will be. i doubt i'd ask your opinion of the song(s), probably just more specific technical advice. thanks
 
I won't get involved in the comparison of your stuff and joey's stuff.

For your mix:
I like the vocals - very 80's Euro style, a bit montonous but suits the style.
The bass is growling nicely - I can see how it can be hard to tame but you did a pretty good job.
The drum machine will suffice and has a suitable sound but I found it a bit clicky. I'd prefer a little more snap...
 
Yeah... That bass is nice and fat. The thing I find most intriguing about the song is that pitch-altered reverse cymbal sound at the beginning of your tune in each measure... At first it seemed completely out of place, but by the 2nd or 3rd time I heard it, it began to fit.. Probably only seemed out of place to me because it's pretty unique.

Drums are okay for synth-pop drums. The snare sound seems a bit harsh, but it definitely pops.

Vocals are nice and on-pitch, and sit well in the mix. The echo / verb fits perfectly.

Good job!

My only nit is that for a purely electro-song, the stereo image of the song sure doesn't sound very wide. I'd widen it.
 
devo2-nc.jpg
 
Thank you sir, 'preciate it! And just the other night, I scored an actual standing ovation for my rendition of "Whip it" in Band Hero.

PoeticIntensity said:
My only nit is that for a purely electro-song, the stereo image of the song sure doesn't sound very wide. I'd widen it.
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You might not believe it, but that's my first-ever song in stereo. My previous mixer had a dead right master channel and I've never bothered to get it fixed, so doing things in stereo is still a new and very conscious thing for me. What exactly did you have in mind though, just pan the existing stuff harder or actually arrange more stuff in proper stereo (by having complementary instrumental parts on each side, the same part playing by two respectively panned instruments etc.)?

Anyway, thanks for you review, and to Ido1957, as well.
 
I'm not taking sides, but at least Joe's music doesn't sound completely homosexual. I mean this sounds like something you would hear at a gay bar. Not that I know what they would listen to at a gay bar and not that I care who is gay or not. It's just far from anything I would consider creative or even original.

Maybe if you would have done this in the 80's it would have been original back then. Obviously it's been done before :D

It sounds OK as far as recorded sound goes and I'm not saying my tastes or skill is any better than any one's.

You mentioned thinking that your song is better than his, but I don't agree with that statement. I don't agree with the mentality behind that statement. This seems more like a competition, but no winners here.

If you want constructive criticism: write less gay songs :D
 
Wow...so this is what the MP3 clinic is like nowadays :confused:

jr high lunchroom...
 
FoulPhil said:
I'm not taking sides, but at least Joe's music doesn't sound completely homosexual. I mean this sounds like something you would hear at a gay bar. Not that I know what they would listen to at a gay bar and not that I care who is gay or not. It's just far from anything I would consider creative or even original.

Maybe if you would have done this in the 80's it would have been original back then. Obviously it's been done before :D
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Whoa dude, you'll have to work on this homophobia of yours, musical or otherwise - it only makes you look stupid. And I can't see how it wouldn't be legitimate to base one's sound on any musical style from the past. The music is totally original, the lyrics are totally original, the arrangement wasn't lifted from any specific song ... so if you feel that despite all this, it's still "all been done before", you must be hard-pressed to find anything at all to listen to nowadays.

Also, it was Joey who started with the issue of whose song is better as far as I'm concerned, he just wasn't explicit about it. It's he who thinks that his song is so much better than mine that he's won't even take my criticism seriously - he actually seems to think that I've come to ridicule him out of frustration or something.
 
Ok, I didn't have to say your music sounded gay. I apologize.

Even if it makes me look stupid it was my honest opinion and I was trying to compare it to something, not make a statement of my homophobia. It just makes me picture a village people type scenario at some disco on the bad side of town that you just don't go to :laughings:
 
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