Presonus, API, Great River, Vintech, and Mackie Preamp Shootout

  • Thread starter Thread starter brandondrury
  • Start date Start date
Hi Brandon

well I tend to agree.....I think the preamp thing, is generally alot of money, for not a lot of sonic improvement....generally speaking.

I think the home recording type preamps that come in boxes today, such as the AW4416 by Yamaha and the VS2480 by Roland...are sufficient, and I have heard some great stuff done on those.

Mic placement, EQ, panning, and song performance and construction have a much bigger impact.

That and acoustic treatment and monitors and position of gear etc....

But, companies gotta make a buck...8)....

it does amaze me some times, when I look at someones site, and see photos of their studios, with there new preamp, that they have spent a fortune of and see glaring errors in the way their monitors are postioned, untreated rooms, etc etc etc....

but shiny knobs and flashing LED's are always more fun......8)........

It was interesting listening to the preamps, and thanks for posting it..

cheers

Wiz
 
Brandon, you never give up trying to pimp your shitty site off to the masses, do you? I don't get it, because it looks to me like you're having a perfectly fun time talking to yourself over there.

Like I said previously ... you're going to have to personally send me a cashier's check or money order for at least $300 if you want me to even glance at your home page for 5 minutes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NL5
Brandon, I'm sending you back your $300.

-RD ("typical dumb ass home recordist", thanks for deliberately playing shitty so I could relate to the clips- thoughtful of you)
 
Is that website some kind of class project or something?
 
I probably should have played some open chords, but at the time, it didn't occur to me.. I wanted to exactly simulate the average dumbass home recording guy so I played I played crappy in a crappy room. This test will show a crappy recording using 5 different preamps. You can decide if the difference is worth the price tag.

WOW!!!.I think this is the same way Sting and Seal record :rolleyes:

Comon dude!!!.....Nice scientific method there buddy......"I farted throught a DW fearn and it sounded the same as a Behringer through my pc speakers".....
 
  • Like
Reactions: NL5
WOW!!!.I think this is the same way Sting and Seal record

Of course not. Sting and Seal don't have anything to do with home recording. I must admit that I'm not overly familiar with the practices here, but I'd assume that the average "home recording" guy would find this useful. I agree that you should do your best to do as many things as the big boys do. However, many of us home recording types have so many broken links in our chain that it's tough to know which link we should start strengthening first.

If this is a forum of professionals, I apologize. I was under the impression that it was home recording hobbyists.

In my opinion, the playing is typical of what one would expect in a home recording situation as is the room the amp was recording in as well as the control room used. The reason for spending the hours on this test was to see if a typical home recording would benefit from $2000 preamps.

Judging by your posts, you seam to infer that great musicians playing in a great room is required before the preamps make a great difference. You even imply humor at the idea that preamps will make a large difference when the great musicians and great room are not present. If I'm correct in my analysis of the posts here, I have to say that it's a shame that one has to post a preamp shootout before getting any real answers to recording gear questions. I've read so many times on various forums that a kid should run out and blow half his recording gear budget on an API preamp right away. It's clear that there other factors that more important.


As for recordingreview.com, the site is a work in progress if you are referring to it's aesthetics at this point. Being that the site is not even 2 monthes old yet, I think we are doing okay. I'm trying to make it useful before I worry about making it look great. Unfortunately, I have a studio booked full for 2 monthes and a full time internet job as well. I do was much work as I can, when I can.

Brandon
 
"home recording" is a pretty broad term. There are cheap small HR setups, and then there are very high quality fairly large setups. I personally know a few home recordists who have excellent equipment and are producing excellent work. It seems to me that in your tests you did just about everything possible to "sabotage" any kind of actual preamp shootout which actually renders the results useless even to a home recordist. Can a home recordist make good use of excellent equipment? Absoutely. Can a home recordist use excellent equipment and not have better results? Absolutely. The equpiment however has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with knowledge, ears, experience and all around common sense. I agree that not everyone should go out and buy expensive equipment. I remember when there was a time in my own career where the differences between things were pretty minimal due to my own shortcomings. However, with more time and practice and experience in general, my ears and my capabilities developed. I quickly outgrew a lot of things in my setup and was forced to make some changes so that I could further my own engineering skills and product.

One thing often overlooked about better equipment.... Better equipment is most often a tool and capable of contributing to a better sound WHEN USED PROPERLY. However, it is also just as capable of revealing the weak spots in a studio's signal chain and and engineers capabilities. This may not net a "better result" for that given recording. If the amp sounds like shit, a super accurate wide open clean preamp certainly isn't going to make it sound better. It will actually just make that sound stand out even more. You can't blame the preamp for that though:)
 
brandondrury said:
As for recordingreview.com, the site is a work in progress if you are referring to it's aesthetics at this point.

Actually, I was referring to the content. Most of it seems like it was just a bunch of random nonsense thrown together to show what the layout would look like if there was actual content.

Of course not. Sting and Seal don't have anything to do with home recording. I must admit that I'm not overly familiar with the practices here, but I'd assume that the average "home recording" guy would find this useful.

Why would shitty playing correlate to home recording? Just because someone records at home (or posts here), you are assuming that he or she must be a shitty musician?

And, why do half of the "members" on your site have a big "I'm A Pussy" banner next their names? You'll note I put "members" in quotes, because there is no way that those are actual people. It's pretty obvious that you've populated your "board" with pseudonyms. What kind of real person would fawn over a dipshit like yourself? Do you really have that shallow an ego that you have to start your own board and invent members to blow sunshine up your own ass? Pathetic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NL5
I assume this guy has some history? Here? Anybody wanna clue me in :confused:

Anyway I listened blind, I liked the Vintech, then the M80, then I lost interest in placing them. There are slight differences in average level, which unsurprisingly correspond to my order.
 
He spammed the board a while back offering a prize to people that signed up on his forum, without any mention of the criteria for winner selection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NL5
He runs a small home studio. He's been asking questions on PSW for a while now, especially Fletcher's forum. Mostly of the type often seen in the mic forum here.

Now he runs his own website and forum with very condescending and one dimensional content. I think he's using HR as an advertising campaign.


sl
 
snow lizard said:
He runs a small home studio. He's been asking questions on PSW for a while now, especially Fletcher's forum. Mostly of the type often seen in the mic forum here.


... And now he's got HIS OWN COMERCIAL STUDIO ! !

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!! ! ! ! ! !
 
brandondrury said:
In my opinion, the playing is typical of what one would expect in a home recording situation Brandon

Speak for yourself!!!!!! Most of the "home recordists" I know take their music VERY seriously. They are accomplished musicians with many years of professional work under their belts. They build their home studios because results are now acheiveable that used to only be available to the "Big Boys" in big studios.

Dinking around and recording it is fine for someone who is just learning about music and finds recording fun and entertaining, and I would not recomend that anyone in this category run out and spend $2000 on a preamp.

However to a serious musician who has been writing songs that he/she would like to record in their own home at the best possible quality, a $2000 preamp is an option that could help get them the results they want.
 
brandondrury said:
In my opinion, the playing is typical of what one would expect in a home recording situation as is the room the amp was recording in as well as the control room used. The reason for spending the hours on this test was to see if a typical home recording would benefit from $2000 preamps.

Judging by your posts, you seam to infer that great musicians playing in a great room is required before the preamps make a great difference. You even imply humor at the idea that preamps will make a large difference when the great musicians and great room are not present.

Depends on just how bad the preamp in question is. I have a decent room. Not great, but decent. The difference between my Mackie CR1604 (not VLZ) and my Peavey PV8 is astounding. The Mackie sounds very muddy by comparison. It wasn't horrible or anything---exceptionally low noise, but very clinical---almost dull and lifeless.

The Peavey PV8 (which cost a fraction as much as the Mackie did five years ago) sounds incredible by comparison. Note that I don't have the best room or the best mics in the world, but even in my studio, the difference in clarity between those two relatively low-end pres on my Nady ribbon would be audible to Helen Keller. :D

Would the difference be similar when comparing a $2000 pre to the Peavey... probably not to the same degree. There's a definite "diminishing returns" rule at work. But there are plenty of low-end pres out there that suck so hard that it's very easy to tell the difference when you upgrade to something usable, even within the same price range.
 
Man, the hammering continues. I honestly didn't expect this. Oh well.

And, why do half of the "members" on your site have a big "I'm A Pussy" banner next their names? You'll note I put "members" in quotes, because there is no way that those are actual people. It's pretty obvious that you've populated your "board" with pseudonyms. What kind of real person would fawn over a dipshit like yourself? Do you really have that shallow an ego that you have to start your own board and invent members to blow sunshine up your own ass? Pathetic.

No, actually I have never signed up more than once for any forum. Why would I need to? I'm way too busy to spend my time creating 110 accounts and posting with them. This is a ridiculous notion.

I thought it would be funny to create a silly default avatar. If you joined, you'd get the same avatar. The real motivation is to change the avatar immediately. You may not like my humor and that's fine. One of the reasons I made the forum was to find like minded individuals who would think this sort of thing is funny. I understand that many will not. I'll just have to weigh the pros and cons.

I agree that many musicians take their recording and music very very seriously. I know. I'm usually booked 2 monthes ahead. I've been doing the best I can with limited resources for a long time. I'm getting better and the clients are slowly getting happier. I must admit that most recording forums are eager to help. The tone on this forum is obviously different. Hell, the guys with platinum records at PSW were way more constructive in their criticisms.

As far as the playing on the shootout, I think it is typical for many recordings that I do. Unfortunately, most of the college bands that I record can not take the time (or do not have the talent) of that of a professional. Compromises are almost always made along the way. I'm doing a spec deal with a band now and we have done our best to minimize compromises as much as possible. Working one day per week for the past 9 monthes we have finally chosen the 12 songs for the record (after writing hundreds) and will jump into actual preproduction. This is something a little closer to what a pro on label would have the opportunity to do (only they would be working 5 or more days per week on the project and therefor would not require 9 monthes).

Wednesday night I had a band who wanted to cram in 4 songs in 4 hours. While certainly not impossible, for their style of recording it did not work. Without a doubt, the band made compromises and settled for less. I wish this wasn't as typical as it is.

To me "crappy playing" is a relative term. Compared to big boys, the playing was crappy. Compared to most local bands that I typically record, the playing was about normal. If you thought the playing on the shootout was bad enough to throw off the stupid little test, send me an email.

If very highend preamps are not going to make a big difference recording in an unideal situation, that's fine. If that's the conclusion you have drawn from my stupid little audio files, I can only counter with.... What will make a big difference in an unideal situation?

I apologize if anyone got the idea that I was coming up with a definitive answer to some deep question here. I'm just an idiot who posted a .zip file with some recordings I did. You are free to draw your own conclusions. It appears that are recording with some 2 track Presonus box who are saving for their first 57 are glad they had the chance to hear the shootout. It seams the pros who've spent $20,000 on their preamp rack get angry. I don't understand the anger.

Brandon
 
Dude, I love how on all of the discussions on your forum, it's just like that episode of Twilight Zone where the guy walks out his door to find the entire planet deserted.

Look, it's just very obvious from the dumbed-down language on your site, in addition to your recruiting efforts on this one, complete with prizes ... that you have some sort of agenda outside just discussing recording. If that truly was your goal, then what the hell is wrong with this site, here?

But the worst part about it is that your site is just ... well ... gay.

:D

Brandon, if you just come clean with us and tell us what you're doing with the site and what your real goals are, some of us might take you more seriously. Right now, you're just spewing a bunch of bullshit, and it's pretty obvious. But comical, in a sad way.
 
brandondrury said:
Of course not. Sting and Seal don't have anything to do with home recording.

Actually sting has done several albums at home..granted Sting recording at home means an SSL in the great hall of his manor...

I bounce around to a few different forums and I even signed up for Brandon's site and post there sometimes. I am not sure what the problem is with it. Its a small start up that does not get a lot of action and most of the threads are started by Brandon himself, but I see nothing bad about it. In fact the tenor of the site seems pretty laid back and cool. I am not sure the world really needs another recording forum since there are already several very good ones, but I wish him luck.
 
Back
Top