Presence

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HapiCmpur

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What exactly does it mean to say that a vocal (or any other component of your mix) is "present?" I'm assuming that a "present" component is a bit louder than the rest of the mix and that it is also drier than the other components. Is that the case? Is presence also a function of EQ?

And if it's true that you can use volume, reverb, and EQ to enhance the presence of a component, how do you decide which of the three to use in a given situation? Is it just a matter of taste, or do some of these techniques have better applications than others?
 
A vocal is "present" or "has presence" when the singer is in the same immediate area as you....!

:p :p
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
A vocal is "present" or "has presence" when the singer is in the same immediate area as you....!
Ahhh. So the cuter the vocalist is, the more "present" I want to make her. Sounds good to me.
 
Yo Cmpur:

Don't you just love the connotations of the Bear?

Present: usually meaning like, I'm present so let's start playing.

Presence: [this word can connotate various things but here's how I interpret the word regarding a vocalist.]

A clear and articulate performance of a tune inbued with the creativity of the song writer and the director/engineer/home recording person.

As to EQ, Reverb, et. al., this is all in a day's work of YOU. You twiddle the dials and run takes and mixes until you get something YOU have decided is the best you can do with the gear you have at your disposal. Or, you just give it to the Bear, pay him, and let him mix it for you.





The Green Hornet :D :p :p :cool:
 
The Green Hornet said:
As to EQ, Reverb, et. al., this is all in a day's work of YOU. You twiddle the dials and run takes and mixes until you get something YOU have decided is the best you can do with the gear you have at your disposal.
I catch your drift, Hornet. However, I'm still hoping that a few of the old timers in here might offer up some suggestions about how they achieve presence. For instance, let's say I've got a good vocal take, but for some reason it's getting lost in the mix. If I don't want to lose the features of the other components in the mix by turning them down, what other options do I have for bringing out the vocal besides just turning up its volume? Are there certain frequencies that tend to help male vocals cut through the mix?

The Green Hornet said:
Or, you just give it to the Bear, pay him, and let him mix it for you.
I'm sure I couldn't afford to feed the Bear at his going rate, especially after what I've already spent on my recording equipment. That's why I'd prefer to try to weasel free advice out of him (and others) here on the BBS.
 
Keep in mind I'm just an amateur, but...

yes, presence does involve souding like it's close.

This is what I think people are doing to get that:

compression- sometimes they send it through many stages of compression to get it so the volumes of each note are pretty even, but the multiple stages make it harder to tell that it's being compressed. With rock music especially, compression is necessary on vocals. And I'm almost convinced that people use more than they admit to. Before I knew anything about producing, I didn't realize that this was why the vocals sounded so in-my-face. Now I realize that on some albums I have, the vocals must be massively compressed. And to give you another piece of evidence for why compression is almost necessary in getting someting to sound close: I've had two very musically talented people tell me my recorded drums sound too far away. One said there was too much reverb on them. Well there is none! Every drum is individually close miked in the deadest room on this side of the mississippi (I promise). And all they're really hearing is that I haven't yet put the drums through compression yet(don't worry I'm planning on it). Also, I haven't done any equalizing and the bass is overpowering the highs on most of the drums (this is something else they night be hearing) which brings me to the next thing...

high frequencies- this is the most important part of a vocal sounding present. Hear it for yourself, put on any rock album and listen to how sibilant their voices how (how unnaturally loud their s's and t's are). These are high frequencies. So is that hyped "air" making their voices sound so lifelike. For more proof of this look at the frequency response charts of a few mikes people say are great for vocals. Some I have on hand now are for the Rode NT1 and the C1. From the charts I have, it appears that the C1 is +5 db all the way from 4-13 khz and the NT1 has a big peak at 11 khz. And then to top it off, I've heard some quite well known producers talk about how they often put vocals through the Aural Exciter (If you don't know what that is you should read about it, but it basically creates additional high overtones from a signal by distorting the high frequencies already present). This is another little box that most producers won't admit to using. People could bash me for this, but: I almost think there's some sort of conspiracy that prevents famous producers from admitting how much compression they use or how much unnatural brightness you need in many of the instruments, or how much bass they remove from everything. Every time I read an interview with someone I'm like "Stop telling me that you get your trademark sound by making the singer sit in a comfortable chair and by using scented candles and either tell me that it's a secret or let me know some of the stuff that signal's going through!"

did I get off topic?
(hope some of it was helpful)
 
presence- or the "presence range" is located in the midrange section of your eq- around 5-7k if Im not mistaken- the human ear perceives certain frequencies as beein louder than others at the same volume- something to do with the natural resonant frequency in the human ear- the majority of frequencies in the human voice are located in this range- thus the relation to vocals and presence - and why LD condensors used for vocals typically boast a presence boost- get in your car or go to your room- turn on your stereo and turn the mids all the way down on your eq- sounds similar to what you might hear in the next room if the stereo was eq'd as normal- be carefull though- boosting mids too much can be annoying harsh and lead to ear fatique real quick! Presence refers to what the human ear perceives as being close or very near to you and coresponds with frequencies that you can easily adjust with your eq- if you know what those frequencies are
- sibilance and presence are different- your def of sibilance sounds right though- sibilance is more related to clarity though
As an example, a had a Peavey amp (its a turd but bear with me) and it had a presence knob- all it did was boost mids!-

Im sure i left some stuff out and Ill go back to my books and see if I can find the technical definition but thats the jist of it (as i learned it)- hope that helps

Jeff
 
The best way to give a track "presence" is to make sure it has presence at the source.... then ensure you are using the most appropriate signal chain to capture the sound source properly.....!

No EQ, no tricks, just good recording technique!!!
 
Thanks for your thoughts, gentlemen. I found them very helpful.

noground said:
sometimes they send it through many stages of compression to get it so the volumes of each note are pretty even, but the multiple stages make it harder to tell that it's being compressed.
Interesting. So you’re saying there’s an advantage to compressing something several times in small doses instead of once in a fairly large dose? Why is that?

noground [/i][B] One said there was too much reverb on them. Well there is none! Every drum is individually close miked in the deadest room on this side of the mississippi (I promise). And all they're really hearing is that I haven't yet put the drums through compression yet(don't worry I'm planning on it).[/B][/QUOTE]Yes. I’ve heard a lot of people say that compression is what really distinguishes one recording engineer’s sound from another said:

- sibilance and presence are different- your def of sibilance sounds right though- sibilance is more related to clarity though
As an example, a had a Peavey amp (its a turd but bear with me) and it had a presence knob- all it did was boost mids!-
Likewise, I’ve got a Line 6 POD that has a knob for midrange and also a switch for Presence. (But I can’t hear a difference when I flip the Presence switch.) Anyway, I take it from what you’re saying that I could also add presence to a vocal by boosting the sibilance frequencies (provided I don’t overdo it) because that would emphasize vocal sounds that aren’t normally heard unless the singer is right on your ear. Is that about right?

Blue Bear Sound said:
No EQ, no tricks, just good recording technique!!!
Yes, Bear, I KNOW you’re a purist. (And I'm actually starting to like that about you.) But are you saying that you’ve NEVER recorded a vocal that you thought you were happy with only to discover later that you needed to tweak it to help it cut through the mix? Besides, I’m hardly recording under ideal circumstances. I can’t afford a mic for every application, and my “room treatment” amounts to a bunch of sleeping bags hung from clothespins. I think I’m gonna need a little more than good recording technique here.

Thanks again, guys!
 
I can't believe that no smart-ass has mentioned, ('til me), has mentioned the Led Zeppelin album. That's what "Presence" is. LOL
 
Yeah, the black thing on the table that the lady and that unfortunate little boy are doing some sort of mind-meld with...

EQ in the 3khz-7khz range can help bring out a vocal that's getting a bit lost. Some call it the "presence" frequency range. But since we're so sensitive to these freqs, EQing here can be the bane of your existence. Ear fatigue can easily make you make EQ choices you wouldn't have if you hadn't been mixing for hours already... and then you get a mix that's either intolerably harsh/bright/in-your-face/crispy or "sucked out"/"smiley faced"/"far away"/dull etc.
 
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