precision or feeling?

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Krystof01

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One of my friends who also plays guitar has a certain amount of songs learnt note by note. He has spent interminable amounts of hours working from tablature and playing along with songs to get them spot on. We have this constant argument about eachothers playing styles/what we know and what we don't/can't. My case is that I learn certain phrases of certain songs along with my favourite parts etc and spend time learning the theory behind the songs-what key they are in, what notes and scales are used. As much as I would rather just get down and play the tunes as he does, I spend more time creating my own songs on the basis of finding out the underlying structures to the songs I like and adding them to my overall knowledge of writing songs. His argument is that he can play covers of those songs and although he does not know any theory at all really (even basiscs about keys) he can come up with some parts of songs himself that are his-(in all honesty some are not bad).

I guess the question for you is, who if either do you think is right more-so, would you rather play with feeling (like I do listening to tracks and although not playing note for note improvising knowing the basic structure of the song and making parts up) or like him with precision(who knwos note by note what is happening 100% ahead of him, behind him and whilst he is playing)?

I use my ear to play, he uses books (I tune my guitars by ear, he uses a tuner).

The other thing I can say that if I am playing a cover I do not want it to sound exactly like the original on record (nor does the originator (when they play live I give them credit for being versatile and changing the tune (see Led Zepplin, U2 etc)) but instead would prefer to improvise and have fun.

I believe also that knowing the theory behind it is the way forward. Would you rather be in his position or mine?

There are many questions in this post, I suppose I would like feedback on all aspects as I am a little uncertain myself. (by the way I don't expect you to say better or worse literally, just as a generalisation (after all it's only my word-you haven't seen either of us play guitar))

Later, Krystof.
 
To answer the question about what I'd rather do,I'm pretty squarely in the feeling/spontaniety camp.although I appreciate precision as well in terms of the discipline it takes to reproduce something exactly(although it'll never be exactly 100%).There's probably as many ways of approaching music as there are people who play it,and rather than right or wrong,maybe we can look at it more in terms of what works for each of us.If your friend finds fulfillment with his way of doing it,then that's what right for him,although as he grows and evolves,that may change,as it could with you also.I think that what matters most is deriving joy and a sense of expression and satisfaction out of whatever one does,and hopefully giving others something with it as well.Cheers!
 
Hi Krystof01;

I say you want 50/50.
You want to be able to play with precision AND feeling.
What good is being precise, if there's no "emotion" behind it?
And on the other side of the coin, what good is haveing the feeling, but being so sloppy that you're constantly in the wrong key ?

In many instances-I've found from experience, that the guitarists that We've played with who were "all technique"- many of them had no "natural ability" they had to work much harder than the guys who played by feeling.
While the guys who played with feeling, seemed to have the "gift" of music.
Like I said-that's just been my observation.
Tim
 
Hi Krystof,

Both methods have advantages, but I think a mixture of the two is the best. I also used to play, kinda like you, more with my ears than with my mind. Now I've made it to the jazz/producer-conservatory I finally learned the theory about what I exactely was doing. And it is tremendous how much you learn with that!

I still think that you wat of analysing songs is really good, you'll learn a lot with that...

greetings!

Brett
 
Whenever I copy a song to play on stage I only take the leads essential for the song to be the song and the rest I leave to improvisation. For instance, we play radar love, of course I had to copy the beggining, but all the leads from there on are mine. One other comment I always use is as follows, say I was copying Jimmy Page, I use
a Gibson ES-335 and an ampeg amp, Page uses
a Les Paul and a Marshall amp, no matter how
close I copy anything from him it isnt going
to sound like it anyway, so whats the use.
 
I have never wasted my time to duplicate a song exactly for any reason. Its an absolute impossibilty for any band to sound exactly like another band. Even if the notes were all in place how about the vocals? It's alright to redo a song but do it in your style and feeling. Look at how many songs have been redone and made a hit just by changing style and voices.
I would concentrate on writing good melodys in your own style. This is why the big boys stay on top of the charts longer even if they write them for someone else. I think feeling is 60% and playing is 40% as long as the timing is there.
Yesterday, Crazy, Satisfaction, Lodi, Amazing Grace, Your cheating heart, Free Bird, and that one hit wonder written by the two old ladys from pennsylvania thats been done by everyone and their mothers.

Duckhead
 
I think I might just be winning-keep 'em coming-tell me I'm right-LOL.
 
I'd go for feeling... it's more fun to just jam around freely. I do that on my synthesizer (yeah no guitar yet) after finding out the chords or scales somewhat in a song. Can sound horrible sometimes though.
 
"who if either do you think is right more-so"

There's no right, or wrong. It's art. No laws. No bounderies.
 
I'm afraid to say I'm in your friend's category and wish things were different. I will spend an inordinate amount of time trying to duplicate lead work, often from tabs or guitarpro software, because I don't have the same "gift" of music others may have to create their own. This does not do much for my ear either, since if I had learned everything on my own that I currently play, I would have much better ears today.

Another drawback, already stated, is that if the sound can't be replicated perfectly, the mechanical robot guitarist is at a greater disadvantage than one who injects feeling and his own style because in the latter case, you don't "expect" identical sounds during a cover tune.

Great topic. I have wondered about the same.

[This message has been edited by pchorman (edited 07-25-2000).]
 
-pchorman-Firstly things can be different-what you need to do is to pick out the phrases/licks and solos that you like, then try to play them (with or without a record playing) with your eyes closed. Try to feel the guitar and try to pay more attention to expressing the fills etc rather than get it note for note. It's all about perceviernce. You say that you spend inordinate amount of time-try to learn what the songs are about-what key they are in and the scales that are involved and take it from there. You are never going to get a song perfect, therefore improvise and obtain the respect for being able to vary the song. Just take it in your stride and have fun.

Later-Krystof.
 
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