Preamp advice - 500 series vs standalone

B

BillEl

New member
I'm looking at two options and thought I'd get some input.

API Lunchbox
Great River MP-500NV
API 512c

or just the

Great River MP-2NV


The first option I'd get some variety but am not that familiar with the 500 series so I'm not sure if there are other draw backs.

I'd be mostly recording guitar with sm57s, Royer 121 etc... occasionally vocals, bass.

Thanks for any input!
 
I don't use a 500 series lunchbox, but something similar. The huge advantage is you only have to pay for one power source so each of the modules is cheaper. If you buy stand alone, you're paying for everything every time. The other advantage to the 500 series is there is so much stuff you can get for it...EQs, pres, compressors. Another advantage is the portability if you ever want to take it somewhere.

IMO you'd be better off with the lunchbox than with a bunch of standalone units.
 
I don't get the portability advantage, yeah OK it has a handle but when I did location gigs I wanted everything bolted into a rack case, ideally one with heavy-duty casters. The lunchbox without a case looks to me like something that is asking to get dropped and have its very expensive front panels smashed in. I'll take rackmount every time, even if it's just in a small SKB case.

In a studio I definitely want everything bolted into a rack.

Anyway, whatever you do, even if you decide you want 'flavors' of preamps, you will probably still want pairs so you can do a stereo recording.
 
I keep looking at the 500 series, since you could get a whole bunch of processors into a 3-rack space (or is it 4)....but those individual modules ain't all that much cheaper than comparable standalone...so filling up the whole box will still be pretty costly
...and until you fill up the entire box, it looks kinda naked with only a couple of modules. :D
 
He said naked.


Yeah maybe if I was just starting out I would go with the 500 series but I've got way to many rack mountable ones now. Unless I could sell what I have and flip it all over to the 500 series ..... nah.
 
You can get the 500 series in a rackmount form.

There are some interesting 500 series modules that aren't preamps that aren't available in other formats.
 
c7sus said:
You can get the 500 series in a rackmount form.

There are some interesting 500 series modules that aren't preamps that aren't available in other formats.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but they are vastly overnumbered by the rack stuff that isn't 500. Also the cost advantage starts to erode; you have the 6x lunchbox at $67/slot, but the 10x racks are $80/slot.

From a designer's POV 500 is great because you don't have to design a case or a power supply, just a front panel and then charge the same price for your device, and there is a legion of 500 owners who are desperate to fulfill the prophecy of empty slots. If I were smart I'd design for 500 because the profit margins are higher.

Unfortunately I'm an idiot.
 
mshilarious said:
Yeah, but they are vastly overnumbered by the rack stuff that isn't 500. Also the cost advantage starts to erode; you have the 6x lunchbox at $67/slot, but the 10x racks are $80/slot.

From a designer's POV 500 is great because you don't have to design a case or a power supply, just a front panel and then charge the same price for your device, and there is a legion of 500 owners who are desperate to fulfill the prophecy of empty slots. If I were smart I'd design for 500 because the profit margins are higher.

Unfortunately I'm an idiot.
Click to expand...


Unforgivable!
 
The 500 series GR's are less per channel than either an MP-1NV or an MP-2NV. That's just one example. I bet the API's are cheaper in the 500 format than racked too.

It's not like you have to choose one or the other and go that way exclusively.

And who doesn't want a 512c?
 
OP was looking at Grace too; 2x Grace in a 2 slot API rack is $1390 vs. $1090 for 2x M101, which of course aren't rack, but the M201 is not exactly comparable and a lot more expensive. The M801 is $4275 vs. $5160 for eight M501s in a ten slot rack. So it always pays to compare comparable rack units.

I am good without an API myself, mostly cause I don't buy into the discrete opamp fad and running high voltages to saturate transformers that were designed to not saturate. Why not just run a much lower voltage into a transformer that saturates easily? Saves you a whole bundle of change. High voltage is a little silly in the days of ADC ICs that hit 0dBFS at 3.3Vpp. Gimme a Jensen into an IC inamp and I'll match gain, noise, and distortion spec for a whole lot less change. Actually, the distortion isn't great, I assume that's from the transformer though and thus "desireable", but whatever floats your boat. Make the transformers switchable if need be, and make them step-down or multiple taps so the output isn't excessive.

But hey, not complaining, I do a steady business in output attenuators to API owners . . .
 
APIs are cool, Neves are cool, Jensens are way cool, Grace are cool, lots of super cool pres. I just think a lunchbox is rad because you can get all of those and more. Just getting two components will be more than buying a two channel separately, but if you end up with 4 or more, there is a savings.

I've been using the seventh circle audio stuff for a while. They are semi DIY, you have to solder and build it yourself, but each new preamp is around $300 so it's a really great deal and a less expensive way to get some awesome pres.
 
I have both 500 series and rack sized processors... some companies offer their wares in either mode. Some stick to one mode or the other. But with that being said, the controls on the 500 series are SMALLER than you think... the is a very limited amount of real estate on the face plate of a 500 series plug.

But, as an example, a 1 space rack mount unit with two channels of HELIOS mic pre/EQ costs about $4000... I just bought 2 500 series Helios and a 1 space rack unit the horizontally handles 2 500 series modules and the whole deal cost me way south of $3000... so, in this case, a significant savings over buying the rack mount version of these units.

Jim
 
jkleban said:
I have both 500 series and rack sized processors... some companies offer their wares in either mode. Some stick to one mode or the other. But with that being said, the controls on the 500 series are SMALLER than you think... the is a very limited amount of real estate on the face plate of a 500 series plug.

But, as an example, a 1 space rack mount unit with two channels of HELIOS mic pre/EQ costs about $4000... I just bought 2 500 series Helios and a 1 space rack unit the horizontally handles 2 500 series modules and the whole deal cost me way south of $3000... so, in this case, a significant savings over buying the rack mount version of these units.

Jim
Click to expand...

With all of the same bells and whistles?
 
mshilarious said:
OP was looking at Grace too; 2x Grace in a 2 slot API rack is $1390 vs. $1090 for 2x M101, which of course aren't rack, but the M201 is not exactly comparable and a lot more expensive. The M801 is $4275 vs. $5160 for eight M501s in a ten slot rack. So it always pays to compare comparable rack units.

I am good without an API myself, mostly cause I don't buy into the discrete opamp fad and running high voltages to saturate transformers that were designed to not saturate. Why not just run a much lower voltage into a transformer that saturates easily? Saves you a whole bundle of change. High voltage is a little silly in the days of ADC ICs that hit 0dBFS at 3.3Vpp. Gimme a Jensen into an IC inamp and I'll match gain, noise, and distortion spec for a whole lot less change. Actually, the distortion isn't great, I assume that's from the transformer though and thus "desireable", but whatever floats your boat. Make the transformers switchable if need be, and make them step-down or multiple taps so the output isn't excessive.

But hey, not complaining, I do a steady business in output attenuators to API owners . . .
Click to expand...

I talked to the guys at Grace when they were building their 500 version and they had difficulties with the power supply not giving them enough juice. They had to actually dumb down their design a little to make it work. This seems to be an issue with a lot of the transformerless designs because they require a lot of power.
 
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