Pre amp for acoustic guitar?

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Glenn Cimera

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Sorry for what is likely an often asked question, but this is the only place I can get answers to my beginner questions...
I record acoustic guitar (fingerstyle) with a Fostex VF80 w/ cd burner and 2 MXL 603s mics. Sounds pretty good without a pre-amp, but some hiss, and perhaps a bit on the "brittle" side. Would a good pre eliminate some of the quiet hiss in the background? Also, any suggestions on a pre that would be significantly better then the internal ones of my VF80 for, say around $500?
Many thanks to you pros out there!
 
Glenn Cimera said:
Sorry for what is likely an often asked question, but this is the only place I can get answers to my beginner questions...
I record acoustic guitar (fingerstyle) with a Fostex VF80 w/ cd burner and 2 MXL 603s mics. Sounds pretty good without a pre-amp, but some hiss, and perhaps a bit on the "brittle" side. Would a good pre eliminate some of the quiet hiss in the background? Also, any suggestions on a pre that would be significantly better then the internal ones of my VF80 for, say around $500?
Many thanks to you pros out there!
Click to expand...

If the mics are the source of the quiet hiss, then a $50,000 preamp will still give you that quiet hiss. I've used a VF80 on soft acoustic with Studio Projects B1's. These mics have a self-noise of only 12db. There IS some hiss, but you can only hear it with your ear right to the speaker, good volume, between musical sections. So for all inents and purposes, it's dead quiet. The VF80 s/n ratio is about 82db, which is great, but not perfect. You also could be picking up some of the HardDrive whirring -- get away from the machine. I assume you're using the MXL's are condensors and you're using the phantom power? If you have to really crank up the volume, you may be getting extra hiss -- but I don't think the VF80 preamps are noisy. It's probably the mics.

So, a nice preamp is always nice to have. But it won't lower the hiss any lower than the quietest mic in the chain...

At $500.00 consider the FMR-Audio RNP. There are others in that range--a lot actually.

What you COULD do is get a Rode NT1a ($199.00). That mic is DEAD quiet (more so than practically anything else). However, some people feel that budget condensors tend to all be a tad bright. Personally, I've found the Studio Projects B1's a great buy, very quiet, and very neutral on both guitar and voice.
 
Glenn Cimera said:
Sorry for what is likely an often asked question, but this is the only place I can get answers to my beginner questions...
I record acoustic guitar (fingerstyle) with a Fostex VF80 w/ cd burner and 2 MXL 603s mics. Sounds pretty good without a pre-amp, but some hiss, and perhaps a bit on the "brittle" side. Would a good pre eliminate some of the quiet hiss in the background? Also, any suggestions on a pre that would be significantly better then the internal ones of my VF80 for, say around $500?
Many thanks to you pros out there!
Click to expand...

On a budget, I would suggest the MAudio DMP3 ($160 new). I have one, and a pair of 603s, and really dig the acoustic sound I get with this combo (I mostly do strumming, but some fingerstyle). Plenty of quiet gain (a tad bit of hiss if you turn it up all the way (never needed to), but hardly noticeable in the context of home recording). If you want to step up in price, the FMR Audio RNP ($475 new) would probably be a nice upgrade. My understanding is the RNP is about the best 2-channel pre available for less than $500.
 
Studio Projects B1

very nice..... quiet...... gooooooood
 
billisa said:
I've used a VF80 on soft acoustic with Studio Projects B1's.
Click to expand...

billisa: Do you use a pre-amp with your B1? Or are you plugging straight into your VF? The reason I'm asking is that I recently got a B1, but don't have a preamp...the few things I've recorded with it, I've gone directly to my VF08, and they've sounded decent.
 
From what I've heard, the Really Nice Pre ain't THAT much of an upgrade over a DMP if you're only going to be doing acoustic music....But I haven't actually heard a comparison between the too so...You could get two M'Audio "Tampa's" for 660 dollars :)
 
jfrog said:
billisa: Do you use a pre-amp with your B1? Or are you plugging straight into your VF? The reason I'm asking is that I recently got a B1, but don't have a preamp...the few things I've recorded with it, I've gone directly to my VF08, and they've sounded decent.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've gone direct into a VF80, and a VF160. I was always happy with the results. I sold my VF80 because I needed extra tracks. The guy I sold it to bought an external preamp -- an M-Audio DMP3. He then sold the DMP3 thinking it wasn't worth it because the difference was so subtle, if noticeable at all.

A good external preamp like the DMP3 or Studio Projacts VTB1 will give you a lot of extra gain if you need it, but you may not need it.

I think the diffrences are very subtle, and not necessarily resulting in something better.

Bill Keane
 
Hi everybody,
I also have a B1 studio projects mic and I am running it through a Safesound P1. I am recording into a vf16ex. The safesound p1is awesome (budget in mind too)... I would definitely recommend it, as well as the B1. I am really excited about the results I have had so far. They are enhancing my recordings big time!
evt
 
EVT said:
Hi everybody,
I also have a B1 studio projects mic and I am running it through a Safesound P1. I am recording into a vf16ex. evt
Click to expand...

Have you ever compared that setup with running the B1 directly into the VF160EX? I'd be curious. Obviously you'd have to use the VF160 phantom and turn up the gain somewhat, but in terms of sonic differences it'd be interesting to see what you observe.

One of these days I'm going to try an A/B comparison (VTB1/noVTB1). I've just never bothered.

Bill
 
VF80 pre-amp question..

I turn the gain (or is it called trim?) almost all the way up to get proper levels when plugging my mics directly into the unit......could that account for some mild hum or hiss in the background? I record with MXL603s mics.
 
Glenn Cimera said:
I turn the gain (or is it called trim?) almost all the way up to get proper levels when plugging my mics directly into the unit......could that account for some mild hum or hiss in the background? I record with MXL603s mics.
Click to expand...

yes, noise from your preamps at full gain/trim is likely
 
billisa,
I haven't gone direct with the B1 into the Fostex, but I never like to go direct. I always use a preamp, or mixer first. I've tried in the past with other multitracks I've had, as well as the vf16, but I always found that I had to raise the trim to high resulting in a hissing sound, and the sound was sterile.

The safesound is awesome, I was going through a mixer before I got the safesound, and the safesound has improved my recordings a lot. I think it's the most important purchase I've made for the studio. To compare would be to just see how much better the Safesound sounds than going direct, I know for sure that it is much better.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/safesound.htm\
evt
 
EVT said:
billisa,
To compare would be to just see how much better the Safesound sounds than going direct, I know for sure that it is much better.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/safesound.htm\
evt
Click to expand...

Probably, but maybe not. I've used the VF160 on location, and didn't feel like carting extra preamps. I had to add more gain than I would if I'd been home using the VTB1's. But the results were stunningly good to the ears of the pianist I recorded. On mixdown I didn't regret going direct at all. This was just a grand piano recorded straight, as is.

I don't doubt the Safesound is an excellent option. But I haven't found the VF160 preamps to be hissy at all (unless connected to a low output hissy source).

Bill
 
billisa,
I love the vf16 too, I'm not putting it down. I am just excited about the safesound. But, I like using mixers or preamps.

I like that you can take the vf16 on the go too. I actually recorded a project which was rap, and I used the Boss VT-1 as a preamp for the vocals because it was small to take, and it sounded really good.

I think it's important to try things out anyways too, because sometimes you might discover different sounds you may want to use for specific situations.
evt :)
 
EVT said:
billisa,
I love the vf16 too, I'm not putting it down. I am just excited about the safesound. evt :)
Click to expand...

No put down taken. Actually, I looked up the SafeSound gear. It looks great, and gets nice reviews.

When you go into the VF160 do you turn the VF's preamps all the way down and just do all gain staging with the SafeSound? That's how I've been doing it with my VTB1's...

Bill
 
billisa,

Yes exactly. I have the trim all the way down on the vf16 and use the safesound for gain. With the trim up, it is too sensitive.
How do you like the vtb1? I've read that they are good. What are you running through it, only vocals, or other instruments too?
evt
 
EVT said:
billisa,
How do you like the vtb1? I've read that they are good. What are you running through it, only vocals, or other instruments too?
evt
Click to expand...

The VTB1 is dead quiet, with lots of gain, and ability to dial in a tube circuit that is still whisper quiet. I've mainly run vocals and miced acoustic quitar, but a bass player I had over loved it as a DI with about 50% tube dialed in...
 
cool.. sounds nice!
thanks for the info on the vtb1 billisa.
:) evt
 
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