power strips

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frederic

frederic

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I have no affiliation with this seller, other than I've been buying powerstrips from him for a few years now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64061&item=5741252578&rd=1

I have four on my server racks in the basement, five in the garage for all my machining equipment, and five more on the way for my studio. With all the stupid plugs and wall warts, can never have too many outlets :)

Just figured I'd pass this along since I'm sure I'm not the only one who dislikes daisychains of powerstrips on the floor to kick.
 
Wow! THAT is EXACTLY what I needed for my console frederic.........er....two years ago that is. :D I got to the point I made up a strip from parts myself. It is almost the same thing. It's under my console now. Same outlets, same quantity.....no breaker. Wired direct to a 15 amp breaker on the supply. Made it from an aluminum extrusion. I'd known these were available, it would have saved me a day of work :rolleyes: . Oh well... same ole story.....if I don't find it, I make it. Usually. BTW frederic, I'll be emailing you soon about your TMD's and midi. Since YOU are the expert. :D Hey, how bout one now. HOW or What kind of interface card do you use to connect the mixers to the computer? Or do you even connect them to a computer? I was looking for a PCI822 but I see now that they have discontinued them. Good ole Tascam :rolleyes: Bet they discontinue support for EVERYTHING within two or three years of selling the products. Thats why my next equipment will be a MADI type interface.....I think ;) Ha. My lexicon Core 32 was obsolete within a year. Still haven't even really used it. What a joke. AND waste of money, although the PCI 90 reverb card is probably still pretty good. Haven't even heard it though.
fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Wow! THAT is EXACTLY what I needed for my console frederic.........er....two years ago that is. :D I got to the point I

I figured you and others might need such a thing. I've never really had a problem with having enough power, just not enough outlets. Most of my midi modules either have wall-warts, or built in power supplies that draw less than an amp, so its more of an outlet count than anything.

Like you I debated building one myself, however the desire to machine out square holes for the snap-in outlets and acquire extruded aluminum (or thin-wall square steel tubing, which was my choice) was just too much work as compared to $30 a pop.

I'm cheap, but not to the point of wasting more time than I have to.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Usually. BTW frederic, I'll be emailing you soon about your TMD's and midi. Since YOU are the expert. :D Hey, how bout

You're more than welcomed to... frederic at midimonkey dot com.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
one now. HOW or What kind of interface card do you use to connect the mixers to the computer? Or do you even connect them to a computer? I was looking for a PCI822 but I see now that they

Stereo audio feeds off the TM-D4000 via coaxial s/pdif, which I have connected a RCA video cable, which connects to the PC. On the back of my studio PC (Shuttle XPC), I hacked up the enclosure and attached several RCA jacks, which are s/pdif in and out. These jacks replace the optical toslink connections on the front and back of the machine, I simply disconnected internally the optical jumper ribbon cable and moved it over to a connected I made for my RCA jacks, buffered with a TTL chip. Nothing fancy, but it works. True s/pdif in and out.

For midi, I have yet to hook them up as I'm deciding where to mount them, but I have eight, eight port midi interfaces made by Emagic. A combination of Unitor-8's and AMT-8's. The only major difference between the two styles is the Unitor's have SMPTE sync jacks, one of which is spliced into the SMPTE in/outs of the Akai recorders, so Sonar Pro can track midi location to akai hard disk recorder location. This is how I linked the akai recorders to the midi PC.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
have discontinued them. Good ole Tascam :rolleyes: Bet they discontinue support for EVERYTHING within two or three years of selling the products.

As you know I had a lot of arguments with Tascam on their BBS, as at one point I had four TM-D4000's but couldn't get boards and service parts for them, so I sold three of them and accumulated some spare parts for this one. That's why I "expanded" the wings of the console with little TMD1000 mixers, they are about $300 on ebay, six on the console table, and two spares in the attic either as a complete replacement or a parts leeching opportunity. I consider them disposible.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Ha. My lexicon Core 32 was obsolete within a year. Still haven't even really used it. What a joke. AND waste of money, although the PCI 90 reverb card is probably still pretty good. Haven't even heard it though.
fitZ

I gave up trying to have the latest and greatest. Over the years I changed my attitude and went more with samplers and such, with libraries of samples of "vintage gear", sounds I really like. And you know what? $2500 for a shiny new sampler is a waste of money. Its much easier to just buy on e-bay actual "vintage" midi modules and shove 'em in a rack. Aside from looking impressive for clients, at the same time, you have the original analog sound. And sometimes the price is right. Snagged an EMU Proteus for $75 about six months ago... saw at the local Sam Ash a couple of Roland MKS style modules, $50 unknown condition, don't work. Got three for $50, two needed fuses that were soldered on the internal power supply board, one needed a new power transformer and a bridge rectifier. Total cost was less than $100 and I have three nice older vintage midi modules.

Same thing for outboards. I have many, many outboards most of which I don't remember what I have since they are still buried in the attic. But, I have two Alesis midiverb III's, I got as a pair for $70ish on e-bay a few years back. Certainly not the latest and greatest, but if applied subtley they are quite useful. Why buy new when I'm not going to use it constantly anyway. My TC Helicon Vocal Prism Plus I bought new a few months ago, as I did my Triton Rack about a year and a half ago, because I do use those an awful lot. Same for the Cybertwin amp.

Oh well, its all good.

Anyway, back to soldering. Making a relay-controlled monitor switcher to select between two pairs of monitors, and a sub-bypass for when I want to take the sub out of the L/R signal path, and run it off the 5.1 surround mixing thingymabob.
 
and run it off the 5.1 surround mixing thingymabob.

Hi frederic. As usual, you are practical. I like that. It confirms my belief in staying with outboards(cheap) and using what I have. As to the 5.1 thingymabob, is that some sort of matrix encoder or what. Do you actually record 5.1 to CD? I'm so far behind in current technology, I don't even know what exists out there as far as playback is concerned :rolleyes: Is 5.1 just for movie surround sound, or is there really an audio CD format for music with 5.1( I haven't bought a CD EVER!!!!) :eek: :D Isn't that odd? (I have a ton of CD's and mostly LP's, but never bought a CD. Hmmmmmmm.......talk about an old fart! :rolleyes: BTW, what program would you use to burn a CD mix ready for mastering, and what does it actually do? Is it different than burning a regular old CD in the computer?
fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Hi frederic. As usual, you are practical. I like that. It confirms my belief in staying with outboards(cheap) and using what I have.

While all the mixers I have (the whole row) have built in "outboards", most of the dsp processing is difficult to control at best. One of the things I really like about analog consoles are all the knobs, faders, and selection switches. Digital mixing, well, doesn't have enough human interaction. I hate menus. Musically its useful, ergonomically its useless. This is why I retain my collection of outboards. Knobs!

If I were to sell all this crap I could probably do what I need to do using just software: Sonar with a plethora of plugins. But I hate mice, windows, and computers too :)

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
As to the 5.1 thingymabob, is that some sort of matrix encoder or what. Do you actually record 5.1 to CD? I'm so far behind in current technology, I don't even know what exists out there as far as

For boring stereo, I mix down to stereo to either an Akai DD1000, or right to the s/pdif in of my computer. For surround, I do one of the following:

For DTS, I have one of these (as well as it's sister decoder):
http://www.dtsonline.com/pro-audio/products.php?ID=1039017707

For Dolby, I mix down to an Akai DR8, then import track pairs into the PC using the s/pdif out of the Akai, and s/pdif in on the PC, save the pairs as waves. I have to do this three times for 5.1 surround. Then using Sonic Foundry's "Soft Encoder", I smush it all together as a surround-encoded wav file, then burn that. All the normalizing and final tweaking has to be done BEFORE encoding, as I've discovered. But I master in the Akai DR8 all the songs as if it were the final cut, then export all the songs based on start/end smpte times that I've written on a legal pad. Its annoying, but it works. Its also easy to encode incorrectly. A few times I've had such a mish-mosh of exported wave files, I've "soft encoded" front left/right/center/sub from song 1, and accidentally encoded left-rear/right-rear of song two, into the same encoded wav file. Ooops. Now you know why I like knobs, faders, and patch bays, but that's another story.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
playback is concerned :rolleyes: Is 5.1 just for movie surround sound, or is there really an audio CD format for music with 5.1( I haven't bought a CD EVER!!!!) :eek: :D Isn't that odd? (I have a ton of CD's and mostly LP's, but never bought a CD. Hmmmmmmm.......talk about

CD's are generally recorded in true stereo, without all the surround crap. However, just because that's normal, doesn't mean you can't encode everything in one of the many sound formats, as just about every home stereo these days have DTS, and a good portion of those have Dolby as well. So, you can do some interesting spacial stuff with this. However, its utterly unnecessary unless you are involved in home theater, DVD, blah blah, or just like to play with stuff.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
an old fart! :rolleyes: BTW, what program would you use to burn a CD mix ready for mastering, and what does it actually do? Is it different than burning a regular old CD in the computer?
fitZ

Mastering Articles:
http://www.northeasterndigital.com/info/prepmast.htm
http://www.northeasterndigital.com/info/ecdartic.htm
http://www.guitar9.com/columnist305.html
http://www.drtmastering.com/faq2.htm
http://www.mrtoads.com/html/audio_mas_whatis.shtml

Damn good book on the subject:
http://www.digido.com/

With articles written by same author:
http://www.digido.com/portal/pmodule_id=11/pmdmode=fullscreen/pageadder_page_id=41/

Mastering is the technical and creative act of balancing, equalizing and enhancing, media so that the finished product will have attained the maximum musicality and competitiveness in the open market. A mastering studio must be both extremely creative and technically perfect, since the master that is made there will be the template for thousands of compact discs, DVDs, cassettes and records produced for commercial release.

Another great link (pdf) as to how CD's are manufactured in a CD processing plant: http://www.cinram.com/cd/tech/cdmake.pdf

I find it difficult to explain sometimes, but essentially its technological improvements to the audio, as well as "art". EQ, Compressors, Limiters, fading is really most of what mastering is about, equipment wise. There are neat little boxes that have all that built in made by Alesis and TC Helicon (the latter being significantly better), but you can do it all with other gear, people have mastered using analog stuff for decades obviously.
 
Hi frederic, thanks. Say, "I "understand" the implications of mastering, and I'll read the articles, but what I still don't understand is the correct way to set up the MIXED "sub-master" that you send to the mastering house. That is what I was actually asking about. Are there standard "formats" that everyone uses or standards that this media, whether 2 trk tape, or CD, must be in before the mastering house will accept it? And if so, do these programs,(such as Waves) people use to produce a "sub master(mix media)" to send out do something special, like spacing between songs, or levels etc? And is this refered to as...."RED BOOK"? Actually, I'll read those articles and it will probably tell me huh? :p Ok, thanks again.
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
but what I still don't understand is the correct way to set up the MIXED "sub-master" that you send to the mastering house.

Aaah, okay, I misunderstood. Must be leadfumes from soldering :)

All audio CD's are "redbook" CDs.

The first CD format which defined the music CD that could be played in all standalone CD players was called CD Digital Audio, CD-DA or just CD-A. The specifications for the CD-A format were set out in the 1980 "red book" standard developed by Philips and Sony. The Red Book standard specifies the data format for digital audio and the technical specifications for devices and media. It's called "Redbook" because the binders that were passed out with the documentation, were red, and the name stuck.

The CD-DA format standard dictates a sample rate of 44.1 kHz, with each sample being 16 bits long. As a result, one second of stereo sound uses 176,400 bytes of disk space. The data is stored in 2,352 byte data blocks along with error detection/correction and control data thus requiring 75 blocks for each second of audio playback. Since a standard 74-minute CD will hold about 747 MB we can determine that a minute of uncompressed audio takes about 10 MB of disk space.

Using "Pulse Code Modulation" or PCM, the music data in digital form is read off the disc. The player then converts this information into a normal binary form and passed to the DAC which feeds analog to the pre-amplifier stage, etc. By nature, an analog signal pattern follows a fairly predictable path, so it's a simple matter for the player to correct small errors, or compensate if a little bit of information is missing or cannot be read.

Additional Redbook Audio Specifications:
- Maximum playing time is 78 minutes (including pauses)
- Minimum time limit for a track is 4 seconds
- Maximum number of tracks is 99
- Maximum number of index points (subdivisions of a track) is 99
with no minimum time limit
- International Standard Recording Codes (ISRC) should be recorded
on CD-Rs to appear on the replicated discs

Actually, the redbook specification has a lot more to do with the physical dimensions than anything else. CD disk size, thickness, hub diameter, depth of layers, length and shape of "pits" in the plastic, etc.

At the time, 44.1Khz and 16-bits was decent technology. Since then, maybe, 8 billion players have been manufacturered? Maybe? Its more than three :D

Later developments in sampling technology now allow sampling at 192 kHz with bit depths of up to 32 for even better than "CD quality". However, the Redbook standard is now cast in concrete and the market is now flooded in Redbook standard audio CD players. Though the standard could be expanded to include higher sample rates & bit depths, it's probably not feasible. Consider that sampling at higher rates and/or bit depths, result in much larger files. Since standard Redbook audio CD's can hold up to a convenient 74 or 80 min depending on the media, sampling at higher rates/bit depths will result in much larger data files...... Thus a CD would not be able to hold anywhere's near 74 minutes of program. The CD medium simply hasn't the storage capacity to accommodate the larger file sizes. Add to those considerations the additional cost of manufacturing a CD player to handle all the different sampling/bit depth combinations. Then also consider that the millions of original Redbook players in the marketplace today would not be able to read the new higher sample rate/bit depth audio CD's. No one in the recording industry would want to commit economic suicide by releasing a CD that only the few folks with the newest hardware could play. At least so far.

So to answer your question... you send them a redbook CD, and they create the glass master from that.

BTW, if its not obvious by now, anytime you burn a CD with audio tracks that's playable in your home CD player, you've just created a redbook CD :)

So, that's the format the glass master is created from, and duplicated to your heart's content.

Now to answer your question (Don't you just love long-winded posts?)...

The format you send the material in to your mastering house, depends on what they will accept. All accept CD's, most accept DAT's, and some of the smaller houses will take almost anything. Some still take Otari tape for instance... but with the potential for damage in transit (temperature, humidity, demagnitization, etc), why not send it digital.
 
:eek: :) Ok, frederic, now that I know how the CD works, I STILL need to know if you use a program that SETS UP all these parameters to burn an album MIX to CD for mastering :confused: :confused: Or do you simply do it manually, and leave arbitrary length spaces between songs , since it is NOT the finished product. Am I confusing you? :D Maybe I'm confused. Ha! I've never burned a CD period, let alone a complete album. I don't understand how you set this stuff up to record say 10 songs to CD. How do you do it manually?
Not only that, I guess I'm a little confused on something. IF studios send a MIX submaster to a Mastering house on CD, arn't they converting it a second time? I always thought this was a no no in the first place. PLUS, what is the point of recording at 24 bit, IF the finished product STILL comes back down to 16 bit?
fitZ
 
Rick,

First off, burning a CD is really pretty easy. There are numerous ways to do it but I prefer to use a program like Nero or CD Creator, which usually come bundled with your CD burner (if you are using a PC-style CD burner, that is). With these programs you simply go through the menu process and choose to burn an audio CD, select the WAV files you want to burn to disc, tell the program if you want standard 2 second gaps or whatever between tracks, what speed you want to burn the CD at (for audio it is always recommended to burn as slow as possible, usually 4-8x), then click burn. That really is about as complicated as it gets. You can use programs like Sound Forge or Wavelab to do this as well, I believe (never used either one myself). I typically take my stereo mix (whether from a software program like Sonar or Cubase or as recorded into the computer from an analog mixer) and process it with a 2-track editor (I use Goldwave; Sound Forge and Wavelab are more advanced versions of the same type of thing) to clean up the beginnings and endings of the songs and to verify that I have similar "loudness" levels from one track to the next. When done, I have a 16 bit/44.1 kHz WAV file that is ready to be burned to CD.

Now, if you want to use an external/stand-alone CD recorder (for instance, before getting a CD burner in my PC I had a Phillips stand-alone CD recorder), then you would treat it the same as making a tape. You pop in a blank CD, set up the menus to choose the recording source on the CD recorder, test your levels, then press RECORD on the recorder and PLAY from your source. What you get is just like tape, a continuous audio stream on the CD. Some stand-alone recorders will allow you to punch in a track change as you record so you can get the multiple tracks.

As far as how you send stuff to the mastering house, it all depends. Each place will provide its recommended solution, and they may conflict from one place to the next. For home recording budgets, most places accept the basic CD audio files in 16 bit/44.1kHz format. Some will accept discs with raw WAV files in any format you choose to send (just be sure you choose to burn a DATA CD and not an AUDIO CD in the burn process). A lot of mastering houses will accept tape as well, but with the caveats that Frederic mentioned (always make sure to have a backup copy!!). Also, some mastering places want you to have your fade ins/outs established, others want you to leave the beginnings/endings to them (you provide notes to guide them).

The question about the down conversion of 24 bit to 16 bit is still a highly debated topic. Mathematically, the 24 bit files give you a much higher resolution for your recorded audio, so theoretically the quality of the recorded audio should be better. However, what gets lost when the audio mixdown gets down-converted to 16 bit? I personally record everything at 24 bit because it gives me higher headroom for my audio input signals, and if I record a source at too low of a level, the digital gain adjustments are prone to have fewer errors, and hence will sound better.

Anyway, I hope this helps clear some things up.

Darryl.....
 
Rick,

On a PC (or MAC, or Linux) any burning software known to man burns a "Redbook" CD, you have nothing to think about in that regard. Most of the software (like Nero, heck, even Windows Media Player!) asks you about spacing between songs. Then its burned, as-is, to the disc. There is nothing to adjust, set, modify, etc. And you have a redbook CD :)

If you've already mastered your music with fade in/outs and such, then you have a final burn ready for duplication.

point of recording at 24 bit, IF the finished product STILL comes back down to 16 bit?
fitZ

If all you record is music, down to CD's, then 44.1Khz sample rate + 16 bits is all you ever need to work with. use older, less costly, digital gear.

If you're doing DVD's, then 44.1K + 16bits is fine, though more often than not dvd audio is recorded at 48K or 96K w/24bits.

Am I answering your question yet? And yes, I'm really confused... not sure why simple english has me baffled :)
 
he question about the down conversion of 24 bit to 16 bit is still a highly debated topic.
Thanks a mill Darryl. It's probably strange that a person who's interested in recording has NEVER burned an audio CD in this day and age. Fact is, I'm a working person, with very little time. And for 10 years of my interest, I lived in rentals, and no sooner than I would get my little studio set up, which would take quite a bit of time in the first place, I would have to tear it down and move because of landlords decisions to sell etc. Not only that, cassette and reels were and still are my machines of choice cause their just plain fun. :D Once I bought a house, I set my analog stuff up, and THEN...
got into studio design :eek: :rolleyes: :p THEN.....got some digital stuff and no sooner than I purchased that stuff and BARELY got it set up......WHAM!! I moved from California to Oregon which TOTALLY upset my life. Now I'm finally at the point where I'm setting the equipment up for the LAST time ever. This is IT!! :D I've burned plenty of DATA CD's for Autocad files, but never seemed to get around to burning an audio CD cause the audio perifials such as amps and monitors were never set up untill all the OTHER stuff was done. You know how that goes....build consoles.....racks.....rooms.........treatments
HA! takes forever as frederic well knows!! But now I'm just on the verge of setting up the digital stuff I have, but I needed to know some stuff first. Got 2 computers in my console belly rack.....one for digital audio..the other for Autocad and the net. Then I have a third one for seperate midi sequencing, although they are all tied together with a Studio 128 MIDI thingymabob.. :rolleyes: which I also have NEVER used. This will tie MIDI to my Midiizer synch to the 2 MSR16's and the computers....I THINK..ha! what a cabling nightmare. You should see the wiring diagram. Talk about a zoo. Anyway, I just wanted to know a few things before I hooked up the digital stuff so I could wire the console before I closed it up. Hooking up the TDM's to the Lexicon Core 32 and computers is where I'm really lacking in knowledge. But, thats another day...another headache :p It's pretty much all for fun for me being in a place such as Coos Bay Oregon. Not much happening here in regards to recording but you never know. Well, thanks for the insight Darryl , I really appreciate it.
If all you record is music, down to CD's, then 44.1Khz sample rate + 16 bits is all you ever need to work with.
Well, thats what I thought. I've read all the Massenburg arguments for higher rates and stuff, AND lately been reading Mastering engineers lament the state of broadcast level mastering of high end lable producer stuff, who continue to demand "LOUDER" mastering of pop music. They all say the same thing. If they don't do it, somebody will, and that is a real problem for them as far as income is concerned. Client support is the name of the game, so whats the point of higher bit rates if your going to "squash" it to the point of distortion during mastering. Doesn't make sense to me :rolleyes: Of course, "I'll" never have to worry about such criteria anyway, so I might as well stick to what I have. Besides, I doubt if "my" ears would hear the difference, as they are "lead" compared to "golden" mastering ears. Ha! :D Well, cool frederic. Your practical logic strikes again. Thanks buddy.
fitZ :)
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
HA! takes forever as frederic well knows!! But now I'm just on the verge of setting up the digital stuff I have, but I needed

That is does, only because I have too many big projects going on at the same time, AND an old house that needs constant attention, and I'm remodeling various other rooms, and my wife is pregnant, and and and...

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
128 MIDI thingymabob.. :rolleyes: which I also have NEVER used. This will tie MIDI to my Midiizer synch to the 2 MSR16's and the computers....I THINK..ha! what a cabling nightmare. You should see

I have a lot of gear in the attic I never use, or will use, I'll be selling it shortly. I have a few old sync boxes I don't even remember what they sync :) Like a JL Cooper Mac/Midi/Tape Sync thing, an Adat to tape syncer, etc. Boxes of crap.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
the wiring diagram. Talk about a zoo. Anyway, I just wanted to know a few things before I hooked up the digital stuff so I could wire the console before I closed it up. Hooking up the TDM's to the

Wait until I start wiring my patch bays... 144TT bays x 8 in the front, and 8 in the back. Thats 144 * 16 * 3 (trs) = 6912 solder connections. Plus monitors, plus melting the ends on homemade toslink snakes, etc.

At least the monitors should be done today. 2/3 of the way done, found large 20A molex connectors.

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
to "golden" mastering ears. Ha! :D Well, cool frederic. Your practical logic strikes again. Thanks buddy.
fitZ :)

You're welcome. Just keep in mind I'm an amatuer, opinionated bloke :)
 
Just keep in mind I'm an amatuer, opinionated bloke

As far as I'm concerned, you've had a few commercial studios, and tons more experience at the day to day requirements of studio technical obligations. So I respect that as it doesn't sound amatuer to me at all. Opinionated? Ha, not anymore than me :D My wife says I'm the most opinionated, judgemental, and negative person she has ever met. Well, at 60 years old, I've EARNED it :D Even if I've become an old fart in the process. Besides, no one walks in my shoes, or has lived my life so I'm the only one who has to live with the consequences of it. And since thats the case........well, what can I say? :rolleyes:
fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
As far as I'm concerned, you've had a few commercial studios, and tons more experience at the day to day requirements of studio technical obligations. So I respect that as it doesn't sound amatuer to me at all. Opinionated? Ha, not anymore than me :D My wife says I'm the most opinionated, judgemental, and negative person she has ever met. Well, at 60 years old, I've EARNED it :D Even if I've become an old fart in the process. Besides, no one walks in my shoes, or has lived my life so I'm the only one who has to live with the consequences of it. And since thats the case........well, what can I say? :rolleyes:
fitZ

I hear that, I'm a little more than half your age and I often feel the same way. But that's okay, its who we are, right?

While I appreciate the sentiments and kudos you've passed my way regarding running pro studios, do know all three of them are long gone, and there was a reason for that. The last one popped mostly because I went into it with partners I didn't particularly like or trust, that's always a disaster waiting to happen, and it did. The other two did okay in the beginning, then started to struggle over time, mostly because I (and a partner in one case) kept treating the 'business' as 'gear slut collection', often shooting ourselves in the foot buying new gear where it wasn't absolutely necessary. While we made above average recordings (IMHO), we kept forgetting its about recording, the end result, the outcome, rather than the technology utilized to get there. This is one of the reasons why I harp on that all the time, with my typical "a pro engineer on a portastudio will make a better recording than an untrained monkey on a Neve, SSL, etc". comment :D

Been there, untrained monkey that.
 
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