Power Amp recommendation

  • Thread starter Thread starter dolod44
  • Start date Start date
D

dolod44

Guest
I was wondering if anyone could steer me towards a reliable somewhat decent but cheap power amplifier---as in Maximum $300.I just bought a pair of Peavey PR 12 400 watt Passive speakers to add to my small rehearsal/coffee house gigs P.A. I have a Mackie 1402 mixer.Should I perhaps stick to Peavey or does that matter?Also I have seen some pretty cheap ones but as I said I want to get something at a low price that won't break down on me.
Thanks
 
Brand-matching is not requisite since you're running passive speakers. An amp that ouputs the same ohms as your speakers is.

All I know is be careful with the temptingly cheap Nady amps. The one I actually own (900w), it still works fine although it's in a fixed installation not being banged around in transit. I sold three other friends on the same model who did use them for various nomadic practice sessions. I even hooked them all up for them, showed them how to use them the first time, etc.
ALL three went ka-put with one month. Granted, they were probably idiotically pushed to clipping all the time which blows the capacitors in them quite easily from other reports I've read but they should work fine as long as you aren't clipping. Only other gripe about them is being reduced to the banana-style clip output only. Not a big fan of these amps in hindsight. They seem too finicky and unreliable from other reports I've read online as well.


I've been eye-ing the Behringer EuroPower EP1500 Power Amp ($299) as a more powerful replacement and may shell out the extra to go the next step-up to the 2500 for future expansion on speakers. Output on these are speakon connectors which is of much better quality than most different make amps in the similar price-range which offer 1/4" output or bananna-clips. From the reports I've read on the forum, it looks to be a decent piece of equipment.


Honestly between the high-priced Crowns and the bottom of the barrel Gem-Sounds, I cannot tell a marked difference in actual sound quality between any of them except in reliability, ohm-adjustment flexibility, sheer power output and minor negligible hiss. I don't think anyone else but with golden ears could possibly tell an actual sound quality difference.
 
Last edited:
dolod44 said:
I was wondering if anyone could steer me towards a reliable somewhat decent but cheap power amplifier---as in Maximum $300.I just bought a pair of Peavey PR 12 400 watt Passive speakers to add to my small rehearsal/coffee house gigs P.A. I have a Mackie 1402 mixer.Should I perhaps stick to Peavey or does that matter?Also I have seen some pretty cheap ones but as I said I want to get something at a low price that won't break down on me.
Thanks
Click to expand...
The PV900 will not have enough power to get those speakers up loud. (If you always keep the volume reasonably low it will work fine.) Because it would be underpowered, if and when you try to make it loud, you run the risk of blowing your speakers.

You need an amp that is in the vicinity of 400 watts per channel (plus or minus about 20%) when it is at 8 ohms. If you want to stay in the Peavey line, better candidates would be...PV1600, PV2600, CS1400, or CS2000.

Even better matched would be the Behringer Europower EP2500 because it is rated at 450 watts. I think it is your cheapest choice that matches up correctly. Other 400 watt (@ 8 ohm) amps will cost well over $300.

By the way, always turn your power amp up to 10 (100%) and control the volume with your mixer's master faders.

Hope this helps.
RawDepth
 
the only significant difference between a consumer amp and a pro one in my mind is "can you kick that bitch out the back of the truck and still use it tonight????" and yet in alotta cases with "pro" amps the answer is no... if it were me the only things in that range i would consider are the low end CROWN and QSC like the RMX series qsc's
 
Ive never been able to tell a notable difference in sound quality among PA power amps either so always considered them a good place to save a buck in a PA system. I find the only thing that usually makes one sound better over the other is a higher power rating that can yeild more punch and better clean headroom but there is also a point at which enough power becomes enough and adding more just equals more money and sometimes heavier wieght. Moderate volume coffeehouse type vocal/acoustic sources probably dont need too much extra headroom unless your also micing a kick drum or running a bass directly to the PA or something.

Actually, Peavy power amps are pretty reliable and should last a while. I own two, one is over 15 yrs old and the other is over 20 and with all the abuse they've endured I cant seem to kill either. At a $300 budget though it would be hard for me to resist that Behringer 1500 if I needed a replacement though. Not only for its higher power but the limiters and low cut filter are useful extra feature that are not always found in budget amps in this price range and will help extend thier lifespan. I would only pray it lasted the 20+ years my Peavey has but Behringer just hasnt been around long enough to know that yet.
 
Thanks guys---you have been a great help.A friend of mine is offering to sell me a CS 800 for $200...but after what raw depth has said I might go for a higher power rating...I felt I wouldn't really need something too powerful as I will only be doing coffee house style gigs for now but if it makes a difference even at small gigs well I would be willing to go a little higher.
 
Actually, I think you might find a CS800 to be plenty for what you need and thats a reasonable buy for an amp that was around $500 new. I'd really give it a spin first before assuming you need more power than that. Although that amps specs are 180watts @8ohms pr/channel stereo, dont forget if you ever think you need more power than that on occasion you can always run it bridged mono for a total of 825watts into 4ohms (which is what a pair of 8ohm speakers will equal). Thats over 400watts into each speaker!

Test it in both modes. That should give you a pretty accurate comparison of what the power differece will make and help determine whether or not you think you'll really need 400+ watts per channel stereo. I'd say if you find your not clipping at your desired volume level to begin with and dont hear a notable benificial improvement after switching into bridged mono, then the CS800 is probably enough for you.
 
Last edited:
I would start by looking for an amp that is rated to push 800 watts or more to your given ohm rating. I would be very weary of running an amp that only outputs the speakers given rating. You will probably be looking at a blown driver (especially a horn) soon unless you are using the whole system pretty lightly.

As far as amps sounding the same, I am sorry that some of you guys can not hear the difference between them. I will just assume that you haven't heard speakers yet capable of reproducing the difference. In my opinion, the power amps are the most underated and underappreciated factor in a lot of rigs out there. There is a big difference in sound quality even in the same company between the entry lines and the pro lines. Take QSC for example. If you were to compare something like the cheap RMX amps to the Powerlight 2's there is a big difference. Besides that fact that the PL2 is a faster smoother amp, it is also much more efficient in it's power rating, AC stability, weight, features and capabilities etc... 2000 watts of RMX does nto sound even close to 2000 watts of PL2. There are a lot of other technical differences, but I am not an electrical engineer so I won't even go there.
 
I would avoid nady, mine are junk, I've bought six nady products, 2 mics, 2 processors, and 2 power amps. Mics do not work, 1 power amp works some of the time (overheats), the signal processor are ok but rarely used. Cheap parts make cheap gear and cheap parts don't seem to last long.
 
xstatic said:
I would start by looking for an amp that is rated to push 800 watts or more to your given ohm rating. I would be very weary of running an amp that only outputs the speakers given rating. You will probably be looking at a blown driver (especially a horn) soon unless you are using the whole system pretty lightly.

As far as amps sounding the same, I am sorry that some of you guys can not hear the difference between them. I will just assume that you haven't heard speakers yet capable of reproducing the difference. In my opinion, the power amps are the most underated and underappreciated factor in a lot of rigs out there. There is a big difference in sound quality even in the same company between the entry lines and the pro lines. Take QSC for example. If you were to compare something like the cheap RMX amps to the Powerlight 2's there is a big difference. Besides that fact that the PL2 is a faster smoother amp, it is also much more efficient in it's power rating, AC stability, weight, features and capabilities etc... 2000 watts of RMX does nto sound even close to 2000 watts of PL2. There are a lot of other technical differences, but I am not an electrical engineer so I won't even go there.
Click to expand...
I disagree. 800 watts @ 8 ohms would be overkill. Perhaps you are confusing RMS Power, Program Power, and Peak Power. Those are the most misunderstood speaker specs among soundmen, JD's, and audio hobbyists.

The original poster asks for a recommendation around $300. An 800 watt QSC would be closer to $1000. (Although, I agree the QSCs are good amps. I own several.)

To the original poster...

No matter what size amp you use, always avoid clipping, (i.e. distortion.) Make sure no little red peak lights come on (very often if ever) anywhere in your system. Especially on your amps. A peaked (or distorted) signal causes heat to quickly build up in the voice coil. This is what really leads to speaker damage.

Believe me, I know my speakers. I study speakers in depth. I recone pro speakers, design high-end speaker cabinets, and design and operate large PA systems.

Just trying to help.
RawDepth
 
RawDepth said:
I disagree. 800 watts @ 8 ohms would be overkill.
Click to expand...

That's really hard to say, since the OP never said whether the stated speaker rating of 400W was continuous, program, or peak.
 
boingoman said:
That's really hard to say, since the OP never said whether the stated speaker rating of 400W was continuous, program, or peak.
Click to expand...
The first thing I did was look up the ratings for a Peavey PR 12.
 
RawDepth said:
The first thing I did was look up the ratings for a Peavey PR 12.
Click to expand...

Which show it having an 800W peak rating.

:confused:

edit- an 800W per channel amp would probably be more than the guy needs, but the box could handle it, according to it's specs.
 
boingoman said:
Which show it having an 800W peak rating.

:confused:

edit- an 800W per channel amp would probably be more than the guy needs, but the box could handle it, according to it's specs.
Click to expand...
Yes, but almost all amplifiers are rated using the RMS method. This means that a sign wave is played through the amp and an "average watts" is calculated using "Root Mean Squared". This also means that in reality, the amp can produce peaks of more than double the RMS depending on its power supply.

A 400 watt amp (with 100% input) will deliver an average of 400 watts most of the time, but due to dynamics in music, they actually range from 0 up to and beyond 800 watts. The speaker in question should never exceed those 800 peaks. Why would you choose an average of 800 watts and peaks of 1600 watts?

If a speaker is giving RMS rating, then choose and amp that is twice that. If the speaker gives Program rating, then choose an amp that is equal to that.

Program rating is usually twice the RMS anyway.
RD
 
Most all professional companies use amps rated at 2 to 3 times the power rating. There are plenty of good reasons for that. I agree that it is important to consider which type of power ratings you are using to make these decisions, but in my post I did not say which power rating either, so how could I be wrong? Personally, if a speaker is rated at 400 watts program, I would still power it with an amp capable of 800 watts at the same impedence as the speaker. This is neither wrong or rare. You may not choose to do things this way, but there is a reason why in the live industry virtually everyone does this. The reasons are longevity, efficiency and noise.
 
Well, perhaps we are down to splitting hairs now. I don't mean to say that anyone here is wrong. An 800 watt amp would indeed work. So too could a 200 watt amp if conditions are right. There are just too many variables involved to argue over a single number.

Some manufacturers inflate their speaker ratings and some do not. The design rules-of-thumb seek to provide us with a sort of safety net to protect speakers and amps alike. Exactly how big that safety net should be depends on a lot of things such as; which components are chosen, type of audio information being played, how and where the system will be used, system gain structure, input sensitivity, and the list goes on and on.

We all seem to agree that the amp should be rated greater than the speaker. How much greater is the consumer's choice. Often it is a compromise between how much reserve power is needed and how much will be wasted.

I got used to working with a few popular brands that have ratings I am very familiar with. I feel more confident with my design choices because I know how far I can push my luck. A novice doesn't have that luxury. The OP will likely buy what he can afford and life goes on. It is only a Coffee House so, I doubt he will be abusing the system too much as far as volume goes.

I'm guessing he will be fine.
RD
 
Last edited:
I believe in buying with future options in mind. Specs can be a little confusing, they always have to be interpreted. Part of the problem is that there are no real standards for how to test and or communicate the results of certain tests. Because of this it becomes very easy to tilt numbers in your favor without actually being dishonest about them.
 
#1. if it aint rated as RMS runaway !!!
#2 amp should be 150-200% of speakers rms rating

look i suggested the QSC rmx series earlier for a low end pa setup cant be beat... i also am fond of the low end crowns for this in fact have an old pwoerbase1 in my live keyboard rig at present and it's been there since new...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top