Post Hardcore Guitar Mic Placement

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jopshlestick

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Hey guys! I'm new to this forum. But I'm going to give it a go. I've been recording Hardcore and Various Sub-Genres of it for a few years now and i just got a mega equipment upgrade and I've been practicing like crazy on mic placement for guitar. I have Pro-Tools M-Powered 8 with an M-Audio Profire 2626 interface. I'm using the good 'ol sm57 for mic'ing the cab. I have been playing around with various spots all around the cone and can't get that crunchy in your face sound. Iv'e tried using tons of different eq settings on the head. My guitar is a schecter damien elite diamond series with emg's. New strings. My amp is a randall halfstack. Iv'e found one decent spot. It isn't great. But i Don't aim for great i aim for perfect(i'm very picky, if theres one thing wrong i try something else) is being picky my problem? Listen to the song those in glass houses by of mice and men. That is the sound i'm aiming for. I have always been a huge fan of producer Joey Sturgis work. Would i have a better chance using an audix f-15 to mic the cab? I was never really a fan of using a condensor to mic guitars for this genre. and in my opinion i hate adding eq to guitars. Ill put up a few clips of my guitar recordings if it helps any along with mic placement info to each track. Thanks! any help would be appreciated.

Test one is sm57 mic 4 inch away from cab pointing half an inch off center to left
Test two is sm57 mic directly on cab covering 1 inch to right
Test three is sm57 mic directly on cab cab covering pointing to the middle of cone
 

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Well if you're not recording a perfect player in a perfect room with perfect equipment then it's going to be a long, fruitless journey towards perfection my friend.

For your genre, you'll want to stick with close-mic'ing I think. I don't mic amps all that much, I'm more of a amp sim guy myself. I say run with the sound you liked. Why don't you like EQing guitars? That's a silly viewpoint to have if you are aiming for perfection :confused:
 
funk

Yea, I figured out my problem. I was getting way to much interference wich kind of ticked me off. So i just ran a effects pedal from guitar to the amp then mic. Sounds great! As for the eq's ive had lots of success with various amplifiers and guitars some just sound...well like crap. I always have never used eq on the guitars and i get the great thick sound. Basically in my post what i was saying is i like what sound i have now. But i know theres always a way to make it better. Sold my old amps so i could get the profire interface instead of using my old crappy behringer mixing board. *laughs* needless to say my guess is all i needed was the pedal. Without it my amp puts out this horrible hiss and the distortion is cut out and awfull. Iv'e always prefered mic recording rather then di. With the right equipment and skills though it sounds great!:rolleyes:
 
I like the third one best, though I did hear some background noise (It sounded like picks on the strings).

Have you messed around with multi-tracking the guitars more? Turning the distortion down, and doubling up is supposed to get good tone, right?

Though FunkDaddy's right. If you're going for perfection, you'll need a perfect room and perfect player.
 
I was wondering the same thing. I have practically the same set up but with reaper instead. I have ozone 4 so that makes a pretty big difference but I have been seriously considering getting a api a2d to see if that makes it sound better. So does anyone with a profire or digirack have a different mic pre to do a comparison so we can find out if that's the source of our problem?
 
Number three is my favorite.

Not sure about the Of Mice and Men stuff, but I know Joey uses a lot of amp sims in his other productions.
 
jopshlestick said:
Hey guys! I'm new to this forum. But I'm going to give it a go. I've been recording Hardcore and Various Sub-Genres of it for a few years now and i just got a mega equipment upgrade and I've been practicing like crazy on mic placement for guitar. I have Pro-Tools M-Powered 8 with an M-Audio Profire 2626 interface. I'm using the good 'ol sm57 for mic'ing the cab. I have been playing around with various spots all around the cone and can't get that crunchy in your face sound. Iv'e tried using tons of different eq settings on the head. My guitar is a schecter damien elite diamond series with emg's. New strings. My amp is a randall halfstack. Iv'e found one decent spot. It isn't great. But i Don't aim for great i aim for perfect(i'm very picky, if theres one thing wrong i try something else) is being picky my problem? Listen to the song those in glass houses by of mice and men. That is the sound i'm aiming for. I have always been a huge fan of producer Joey Sturgis work. Would i have a better chance using an audix f-15 to mic the cab? I was never really a fan of using a condensor to mic guitars for this genre. and in my opinion i hate adding eq to guitars. Ill put up a few clips of my guitar recordings if it helps any along with mic placement info to each track. Thanks! any help would be appreciated.

Test one is sm57 mic 4 inch away from cab pointing half an inch off center to left
Test two is sm57 mic directly on cab covering 1 inch to right
Test three is sm57 mic directly on cab cab covering pointing to the middle of cone
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmmmmm first off i like stick stickly :D second, i actually prefer the 3rd one the most, but thats just me.
 
Here's a quick spin with your test3 clip and some EQ

Peaking 720Hz 5db Width 2.9
Hi Shelving 13KHz 19db Q 0.242

About mid ways the EQ is bypassed a short bit for comparison.

IMO the fundamentals of your tone are there. I'm not saying stop honing your micing skills, but you may not be as far off as you think. Also, dial the amp for what the mic hears and not what you hear in the room.
 

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Don't knock yourself out adjusting the guitar tone on it's own. It doesn't have much meaning outside of the context of the rest of the instruments. Build the other tracks up, and then test the guitar tone against them.
 
Why not just succumb to Sturgis in you and splurge for a pod and pull your hair out trying to get the tone he does. :laughings:

While your experience may vary, I found the i5 to not be that dramatically different than the 57 on cabs. It's different, but pretty subtle.

And other than dumping anything under 100hz I don't like eqing guitars that much either:

(I reamped this):

Signal was just the DI through a reamp v.2 box and into my 5150 and DR going into a vintage 30 cab miced with a 57, I'm using a profire as well. Only eq on the guitars was a shelf at 120hz.


I can't get your files to download, any chance you could upload to dropbox?
 
Finally got the files to download:

1st: To much gain.
2nd: Stack multiple takes, Sturgis said something about stacking a ton of pod tones to get this sounds.
3rd: Add some mids, mids are your friend. :D
4th: If your amp is naturally producing that high frequency stuff, and you can't dial it out, you might want to dump anything above 16kHz (IMO).


Other than that, it's impossible to dictate if these are good or not since they are not against any other tracks.

But those examples are not as bad as I expected. Is it one of those module Randalls?
 
guitargodgt

everyone thanks for the replys! guitargodgt i have been playing around with the tracks all night with addictive drums backing. Ill post a clip. I agree with the statement about the mids and the gain. I was just messing around last night cranked the mid moved the sm around a bit turned down the gain. its a randall rx120rh. I had ma peavey i sold a while back. The sound was thick and beautiful. Almost no eq needed whatsoever. :D All though i was very surprised! I'm new to this forum and i assumed everyone was gonna be a smartass know it all. lol you guys are very humble and helpful! mad respect for this forum :)
 
I am personally a fan of stacking multiple guitar tracks ..... I generally do 4+ tracks of each guitar , it just adds a thinckness to the tone ..... I do some EQing , My Guitar amp has a 15 Band Graphic with 4 shelf filters built in which really helps shape the tone but I do very little EQing after tracking but do like a bit of compression .....

I do more of a metal tone , even for hardcore stuff as I allways hated the tone of Old school hardcore guitars ..... I generally Boost between 80hz and 250hz , do a Major cut at 680hz and boost between 3.6k and 10k .....


Cheers
 
The Rose clip is 2 takes of 5150 and 2 takes of mesa DR. If you are going to do that many takes it has to be tight with itself or it turns into a giant mush.

Oh and as far as mic placement I end up somewhere around the edge of the dust cap, around 3-4" away and on axis.
 
Sonixx said:
Here's a quick spin with your test3 clip and some EQ

Peaking 720Hz 5db Width 2.9
Hi Shelving 13KHz 19db Q 0.242

About mid ways the EQ is bypassed a short bit for comparison.

IMO the fundamentals of your tone are there. I'm not saying stop honing your micing skills, but you may not be as far off as you think. Also, dial the amp for what the mic hears and not what you hear in the room.
Click to expand...

That sounds much better.
Also, definitely need to hear your instruments in the context of the rest of your mix.
 
Number 3.



But its hard to say for me really with out all the other elements in it to get a feel for it.

I'm a fan of double tracking. It is super fun to play around with and the results are usually pretty cool.

I like the eq'd track for comparison purposes. Just shows you whats possible.
 
I usually mic mine, and it sounds close to the second sample, then double the track in my DAW and pan one to the left a bit, and one to the right. And it sounds good. :)
 
Number 2 and 3 sound great, as long as your not making the guitar overpowering in the mix you should be okay. 2 Has really good clarity on those single string plucks.
 
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