Poor man's monitors

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Dararith KIM

New member
I would like people's "honest" opinions regarding using car speakers as a poor man's monitoring tool/device, since they are designed for close listening (maybe overcompensated with the high & low freq's, due to road noise, etc.). Has anyone tried this out, yet. I don't mind if you think this is crap, but ... no sarcasm, PLEASE.

Thanks for any reply.

Dararith
 
First of all, Welcome!

Secondly. No sarcasm? You're at the wrong BBS:D

I have no real opinion on the car speaker idea though. Maybe it would work if you can get a setup that's linear enough. I think that it would be as expensive as a decent set of studio monitor though. Also, wouldn't you need to build boxes for the elements? It would take quite a bit of work, and money, to get that right. Well, I'll give you full marks for the idea. Be sure to let us know how it turned out if you get around to trying it out.

Maybe I had an opinion after all.

/Ola
 
Thanks for the reply.

I tried to find the speakers/monitors group ... but to no avail; hence, here in this BBS.

Yes, I would have to build the boxes, etc., but there are two main reasons why I want to go this way:

1) the obvious one - money;
2) I like the idea of being self-reliant - period. If I had my way, I would even build the "speakers!" I will feed the signal through to an amp and from there to the car-speakers.

I will come back to let you (and others) know how I got on.

Thanks once again.

Regards,


Dararith
PS: I'd like to "think outside the sphere I live in!"
 
Dararith KIM said:
1) the obvious one - money;
2) I like the idea of being self-reliant - period. If I had my way, I would even build the "speakers!" I will feed the signal through to an amp and from there to the car-speakers.
Click to expand...

1) I'm not sure that it will be any cheaper if you're aiming at having a decent result. Sure, putting two car speakers in boxes will be cheaper but you'll probably be better of with regular hifi speakers if you do that. Making decent studio monitors out of car speakers is quite a task. That is of course unless you already have the knowledge, specialised tools and measuring equipment.

2) I know what you mean. I love building stuff myself but I try to only do it when;
a) there's more money to save than the time it takes is worth to me,
b) it's the only way you're going to get exactly what you want,
c) it's really fun,
d) I want to prove that I can.

Any of the above conditions is enough for me.

However, sometimes you will end up with something more expensive and not as good as if you'd just gone out and bought the stuff and you could have saved yourself a lot of valuble time. Would you make your own microphone cables? Probably. Your own parallel port cables? No way. Spending an evening on soldering some 60 connections to save $1 (if it's any cheaper at all) and risking a shortcut just isn't worth it.

If you have the elements, MDF board, design and spare time and have access to a lot of specialised tools, go for it. If not, buy real monitors.

Just my two cents.

/Ola
 
To be honest, I think you'd be *much* better off getting yourself some decent, budget monitors and then using your car (with car stereo) as a secondary reference for checking your mixes... Yorkville YSM-1s are around $200 US (if that much)...

Car speakers are not designed for listening anywhere but cars - which is a completely different environment than a control room (with a widely different ambient noise floor than a car!)

"Thinking outside the box" is nice, but only when it makes sense.... :)

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
I'm with Bruce...

You'd be better off getting budget monitors designed for studio work. I think you'll save money in the long run by going that route as opposed to getting "decent" car speakers and spending time (which equals money too, BTW) building your own. If you weren't planning on getting decent car speakers ... you wouldn't wind up with much anyway. I think you'd probably get satisfaction from having built your own thing ... but that's about it.
Just my 2¢ :)
Good Luck.
 
I personally like my flat studio monitors. I believe that they represent my sound accuratley.
I am also an artist. and believe we sould allow art to play a strong role in our recording technique. I love to expiriment. so I am supportive of your use of alternative monitoring. I would love to see film shown on the side of a rock.
I am a street musician, and I feel that I sould use my imagination to create the stage that I play on.
I am a child, my sword may be a wrapping paper roll.

Any way let us know someofyour results
 
Experiment... yes... but also don't kid yourself... sometimes there is only *one* way to do something...

If he wants to experiment, he's better off playing with amp and mic positions (not to mention effects and other toys) than getting into a heap 'o trouble using a bad monitoring system...

Incidently Charlie, the "wrapping paper roll" shouldn't be used as a speaker driver either... ;)

:) :)

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
Many thanks for all your replies; I didn't expect so many so soon.

Perhaps, inaccessability is another main reason I should have included in my original post (not to mention something that costs the equivalent of USD600 at least, in New Zealand, for a decent pair monitors!).

What I want to do is build a set small speaker boxes and also sample about a minute of road noise inside my car while driving. Transfer the road noise into wave file and loop it - to simulate road noise - while doing a mix-down. The idea of using Hi-Fi speakers is also in my to-do list.

A minor reason I thought of this car-speaker thing has something to do with when I went to a course on home recording. I didn't like what came out of the Yamaha monitors (I am not saying Yamaha products are useless at all, in fact, it's quite the opposite). I thought to myself, "Gee, is this what uncoloured sounds are supposed to sound like? They sound terrible!" It could be something to do with my inexperience, but everything was so flat!!! I realise that that's how the pros do it, but I am someone who likes to challenge the way things are done ...

Well, one can consider what I am trying to achieve is analogous to CD vs. MP3.

If I had the (electronic) engineering skills, I would turn an old Hi-Fi VCR into an eight-track recorder; I know it would take months if not years, but that's just me. I would spend all that time doing it, rather than watching sports on TV.

Thanks once again for reading this (and/or replying); cheers.

Regards,


Dararith
PS: I am thinking outside the sphere, not the square or box, I live in.
 
I like your attitude!

Just do whatever you feel like! If it's weird enough, at least I will like it!
 
What I want to do is build a set small speaker boxes and also sample about a minute of road noise inside my car while driving. Transfer the road noise into wave file and loop it - to simulate road noise - while doing a mix-down.
:confused: You want to do what? Intentional background noise during mixing?

<snip>

I didn't like what came out of the Yamaha monitors.
<snip>
I thought to myself, "Gee, is this what uncoloured sounds are supposed to sound like? They sound terrible!"
Then maybe that mix needed a bit more work:) The benefit of good monitors is that you hear everything as it "really" sounds.

<snip>
but I am someone who likes to challenge the way things are done ...
That's good sometimes but there's for example a reason why the wheel is round. It works best that way:)

Well, one can consider what I am trying to achieve is analogous to CD vs. MP3.
:confused:

Well, I know what you mean by doing things yourself. I built a set of bagpipes once. They sounded like crap but they worked and it was really fun to make them. So, there are crazier people out there...

/Ola
 
Dararith KIM said:
...I realise that that's how the pros do it, but I am someone who likes to challenge the way things are done ...
Click to expand...
Well there's a reason for that - it works! :)


Well, one can consider what I am trying to achieve is analogous to CD vs. MP3.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this comment at all...


If I had the (electronic) engineering skills, I would turn an old Hi-Fi VCR into an eight-track recorder; I know it would take months if not years, but that's just me.
PS: I am thinking outside the sphere, not the square or box, I live in.
Click to expand...
You're not "thinking outside the sphere" on that one - Alesis beat ya to it with the ADAT!! ;)


Experimentation is great - but why wouldn't you spend the time coming up with new effects, new sounds, etc... instead of trying to re-invent a basic "truth" to the recording process - namely you want to hear back what went in - uncolored and honest... Ain't NO WAY you're gonna meet that basic requirement with car speakers... Hmmm... come to think of it, the Yamaha NS-10s don't meet that requirement either... so much for words of wisdom... awwww... to heck with it - knock yourself out!!! Good luck with the speakers!!! Hey - try the "wrapping paper roll" idea too!!!

:)

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
Buy some monitors

The thought of trying to save money is always something to keep in mind. However, by using car speakers, you will spend a lot of time mixing and remixing and remixing and remixing until you get a sound that may or may not work. Just think of all the recording that could be done if you weren't spending so much time mixing. This is coming from a man without studio monitors (but am in the shopping phase). I have been doing the stereo speaker thing and it is frustrating to me to try and get a good mix. All I need now is the WAF (wife acceptance factor).
 
WAF

I don't know if this is possible for you. But I have a recording project that features Jen. This is my most important project. Becouse of this project I can virtually gain gear purchasing acceptance for anything.
I am very serious. If it is in her best interests, than she will help you pick out the monitors.
Build her an mp3.com page, and wait for Christmas, wahoo!
This is also helpful for spending quality time while learning your gear.
 
My wife has told me many times that she wishes that she could sing with me. But unfotunatly, singing is not one of her gifts. I think what you are doing is really cool. Keep it up. My wife usually does not have a problem with me spending time in my studio, but sometimes she says that she misses me when I am down there.
 
The cool thing about an mp3.com page, is that you can make it her page and let her sing and give her all the credit.
By fullfilling one of her dreams, you really score points, and the pay off is rich.
The down side is that she may have trouble finding the exit when her session is over.
I try to be honest and let her know that ouw projects are very seperate. I also always ask if she wants to second engineer on projects with other folks. She useally turns down the offer, and I am free to work.
 
JC, I just noticed that you are from the rubber city.
I run an open mic tonight(tues.) at the Arabica in Stow.
Grab your dulcimer, and visit sometime.
 
Yes, I realise that Alesis Adat beat me to it; but, isn't it digital?

Some people have missed my point when I want to mix with "road noise." If I can mix with the "in the car simulation" why bother recording to tape and then play the tape in the car, driving and so on. Isn't it true that during the mix-down process, one should give out their results to friends and family members (honest ones, of course!) for their feedback? Another idea came to my head: mix with a pair of alarm clock speakers! Yes, it's crazy, but my material is not fit for radio time (it's non-English). In general, I am happy with the mix, but I just want to improve on that by simulating the mix in different environment: car, living-room, Walk-man, parties, radio, Ghetto-blaster and, small computer speakers. It will be a lot of work, but everything (or mostly) will be computer-based.

The wheels are round alright, but that doesn't mean they are the only means of movement/transport.

On a different subject (nothing to do with home-recording), can anyone please tell me the site or where to get information about design rules/specifications for the olympic track bicycles. Thank you before hand.

One maybe wondering why I don't just go ahead and build the speakers; well, I have a performance coming up and I'm leading a band. When that's done, I have to rebuild my PC (actually, it only needs a SCSI card) but I want to start from scratch so ...

I can probably come up with some effects - conceptually - if I want (except that I don't know how to program in C++, so that's out of the question), but there's no need for them with the kind of music I want to make.

I would like to close the thread on car-speakers as a poor man's alternative to monitors now (because I'll just go ahead and do it, in due time); I just wanted to find out if anyone thought of (or have done it) the same idea. It seems like people are fairly happy with what's available (in my case, it's available, but just far too expensive!).

Many thanks for the replies; regards,


Dararith
NB to JC Lives: you should encourage your wife to sing (eventhough singing is not one of her gifts); why not get her singing lessons or something like that? Well, while you spend time in the studio, she can spend time practising her singing and perhaps she won't miss you as much. And your challenge would be to do a mix of her singing so that her singing doesn't sound too bad or something like that. Please excuse me if you already knew this, but a lot of software now can help tune and enhance the vocals (and other things). If you can find one, SuperJam (now bought by Microsoft) is good, actually the best!, accompaniment software; it's so intuitive and fun to use!!!! Microsoft enhanced on SuperJam and, in my opinion, is a pain to use. It's called Music Producer based on the DirectMusic engine.
 
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