Please Help Me Mix Out The Hi-hat!!!

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tman666

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problem: poor mic placement, particuarly on the snare-top mic has lead to me getting more hi-hat out of the snare mics than snare!!!!! i need more snare in the mix but more snare obviously means more hi-hat.... i dont want it gone completely, i just want less of it.

i've tried EQing the hi-hat out a bit but failed miserably. the snare just sounds dull and lifeless.

any tips?
thank you!

p.s. i am using cakewalk sonar producer V4
the EQ i am currently using is the sonitusfx eq
 
tman666 said:
..i've tried EQing the hi-hat out a bit but failed miserably. the snare just sounds dull and lifeless.

any tips?
thank you!

p.s. i am using cakewalk sonar producer V4
the EQ i am currently using is the sonitusfx eq
Click to expand...
Ah, I see you have the Sonitus suite. :) I would have said 'gate earlier but was thinking 'dull and lifeless' meant the snare track was dead, not because of the hat-removing eq.
No 'Dog... ...Grab that Sonitus gate, (be sure to check out the 'Punch/Eq' options too.. Great tweakers there.
Add gain envelopes (ahead of the effects insert in the chain) to add or cut gain to minimize / maximize the hat snare releationship if it has to come to that. If the guy is playing a bunch of fancy busy stuff.. you're SOL. :D
 
tman666 said:
erm????????????
Click to expand...

http://www.drumagog.com/
Run it as a sidechain and adjust the volume of the snare track until it's more of a high hat track. I've had to do it that way a couple times and it, for the most part, worked well. You still get the nuances of the real snare and the pop of Drumagog.
 
Daisy said:
Hit the snare harder.

And the hats softer.

Done.
Click to expand...

sure thing, next time i'm recording a drummer i'll just dictate the way they play, that will sort out my bad mic placement...
 
thanks to mixsit and timthetortoise. i'll try both your suggestions.
 
tman666 said:
sure thing, next time i'm recording a drummer i'll just dictate the way they play, that will sort out my bad mic placement...
Click to expand...

How different is that from the drummer dictating the way you mix, in order to "sort out" his poor playing technique?

99% of the time, mic placement isn't the issue at all. If you bash away on the hi-hats as hard (or harder) than you hit the snare ... then guess what?
 
Daisy said:
99% of the time, mic placement isn't the issue at all. If you bash away on the hi-hats as hard (or harder) than you hit the snare ... then guess what?
Click to expand...
:D
On a recent proj.. Me.. 'Ok, now how about trying with just backing off on the 'brass but go ahead and lay onto the skins good. That way will have a better balance on the drum track'. Drummer.. 'That's interesting 'cause this other guy was telling me (in so many words).. before.. :)
Later towards the end of three songs, 18 takes.. 'Hmm my cymbal's cracking.'

Anywho.. Unless you feel it's a case where the player is obviously well set in his way and/or has way years on your experience it's not unprofessional not to do it to try to help the project along.
 
I would get his snare round, Mic it up nice, ON ITS OWN and record some hits.
Sample them in and your fine. Should sound more natural than Drumagog but drumagog is a nice piece of gear if your in a real pickle.
Try what i mentioned it will work :)
 
multi-band compressor

You can also use a multi-band compressor like Waves C4. set it to compress the midrange with a slow attack to let the pop through, and to expand or compress the high-end (depending on whether the snare or high-hat is louder in this frequency range)
 
Could you get any extra help from your overheads or anything like that? other than that, multiband compression would probably be a less dramatic first step than replacing with something like drumagog.
 
You're screwed with these takes, so either get him in and re-record with better mic placement and a lighter hand on the hats/brass, or give them their money back and apologize.
 
tman666 said:
sure thing, next time i'm recording a drummer i'll just dictate the way they play, that will sort out my bad mic placement...
Click to expand...

i tell them how to play.

and i quote,

"if you don't stop hitting the snare like a girl, i'll never be able to make it heard in the mix."

sometimes i say "bitch" instead of "girl"


p.s.

you can get rid of some of the hat with a freq dependent compressor, like compress the 6K stuff some, and then use an eq to pull out the 1-2k on the snare.
while this may help the snare come out of the mix, it will probably not be the sound you want.

all numbers are just approximate guesses.
 
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