Please help me decide: Buy better sound card or a mixer?

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Jedman

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Well, here's the deal. I need to input at least 4 MICs at the same time to do what I want, and my Audigy2 only has 2 Mic ins. So, do I buy a mixer (just a cheap one) to mix the MICs, or is there a sound board with lots of MIC ins that I can get with out breaking the bank?

Thanks for any insight on this subject!

Jed
 
You don't need a mixer, you need a soundcard. Getting a mixer will not increase the number of tracks you can simulatneously record!

Maybe something like a Delta44 and a couple more channels of preamp would be in order (not sure what you already have).

Slackmaster 2000
 
Uhhhh...I'm new at this here. This is going to sound dumb, but I don't have any stand alone pre-amps. I was just plugging in my Beta 57's XLR into a Lo-Z to Hi-Z transformer, then into the 1/4" mic in of the Audigy2. I know, not very high quality, but that's all I have.

So, I was looking at the Behringer UB1832FX mixer, which is like $250, and going from that to the Audigy2 L/R RCA line ins.

But, if there is a sound card I could get that would have more than 2 Mic ins (I'd like 4 at least), then maybe I'd rather go that route, and forget a mixer, because I really don't need one, I just need more Mic ins, right?

Jed
 
First of all, I think it would be beneficial to lose the concept of "mic ins". I see a lot of people come here looking for "mic inputs", maybe because they're used to looking at mixers and the like.

A mic input is really an input to a microphone preamp. You can't get past the requirement of a microphone preamp. Not only does the mic pre amplify your mic signal to line level, it colors the sound while doing so...sometimes good, sometimes bad. That's why there are 5000 different mic preamps out there ranging from $50 per channel to $2000 per channel.

Personally I don't recommend getting a soundcard with built-in mic preamps. If the preamps it comes with suck, then you just wasted your money on them. Often times there will be a way to bypass the oncard preamps, but you still paid extra for them (or quality was sacrificed elsewhere). That's why there really aren't many soundcard systems with mic preamps....the Aardvard Q10 I believe has pres, and so does the Delta 1010lt.

The best route to take is to get a typical soundcard with line level inputs, and then use external preamps. This gives you much more flexibility for your dollar. After all, you wouldn't by a soundcard that had microphones pre-wired to it! :) (ok, bad example)

You can either get standalone microphone preamps, or you can use the mic preamps in a mixer. Every mixer that has mic "inputs" has mic preamps. The catch with a mixer though, is that you may only be limited to 2 channels even if it has more than two mic preamps. You'll want to look for a mixer that has channel inserts or direct outputs for each channel such that you can isolate each individual preamp. Really though, if you don't need a mixer for anything else, buying standalone preamps isn't a bad idea.

For an absolute beginner 4 channel package, I would recommend getting a m-Audio Delta 44 which has 4 inputs and 4 outputs via 1/4" balanced jacks in a breakout box, and then getting a couple m-Audio Audio Buddies, which are by and far the cheapest usable preamps on the market. The Delta44 runs about $230 and the Audio Buddy I think runs at $79 for two channels. So your total cost would be $230 + $79x2 = $388. Instead of the audio buddies, you could also look for a used Mackie 1202 VLZ mixer which has four mic pres and channel inserts so you can isolate them. They go around $200.

That's about as cheap a way as I can think of to get into four usable channels.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slacks suggestion of the Delta 44 and 2 Audio Buddy's is awesome....

if you need to do it cheaper (and still get 4 channels of preamp/soundcard), try the 2 Audio Buddys and a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard.....you should be able to get all for ~$225......
 
Slack and Gidge,
Ok, let's see if I have this right: A mixer is just a board that lets you EQ the sound on a channel, and then output that channel back to a recorder, right? I mean a "4 channel mixer" would (simplisticly) have 4 INputs and 4 OUTputs. So, the mixer won't let me do any more channels than the soundcard can record, which is why I need a new sound card, right?
Now, if I can get a mixer w/ 4 XLR pre-amps cheaper than 2 audiobuddies, would that be just as good?

You have convinced to give up the Audigy2, as I can do soundfonts without it, and it doesn't have multi-track recording.
I could get the Delta44 with breakout box for $165 on Ebay. However, I noticed it doesn't have MIDI, which I will need when I get a Studiologic keyboard controller...what would you suggest for the MIDI interface?
Also, what is the "next better card" compared to a Delta44 that is still in the "lower" prices, and would it have MIDI?

Thank YOU - I am learning a ton! :)
Jed
 
Slackmaster2K said:
You don't need a mixer, you need a soundcard. Getting a mixer will not increase the number of tracks you can simulatneously record!

Maybe something like a Delta44 and a couple more channels of preamp would be in order (not sure what you already have).

Slackmaster 2000
Click to expand...


technically you could, tho you;d only record one track on the computer. You could run the for mic's thru the mixer, get the levels set then record via stereo out... its pretty impractical tho

get a Delta44 or if you have to $$ get an aardvark Q10, it has preamps and everything in it...
 
No no...

A mixer is not a device that lets you EQ a bunch of channels...that would be called "a bunch of EQ's" :)

A mixer is a device that sums (mixes) audio signals together. A small mixer will typically have many inputs and one main stereo output. It may also contain a number of aux and tape outputs, as well as direct channel outs or channel inserts. Most mixers do happen to have some EQ, but that's not a rule.

If the mixer doesn't have direct channel outs or channel inserts, then no, it wouldn't be as good as two audio buddies. The reason is that you wouldn't be able to take the four individual signals out of the mixer, you would have to mix them to two channels (stereo L & R).

The next step up from the Delta44 is probably the Delta1010lt which is a scaled down version of the full 1010 and doesn't have a breakout box. It sells in the $300 range and has 8 analog ins & outs, two of which have selectable mic preamps, plus MIDI and SPDIF. The next bump up from there is the hoontek C-port (although I have no experience with this sytem), which is another 8/8 card but has a full breakout box.

Another card to consider is the Delta66 which is identical to the 44, except it has SPDIF...if SPDIF is of any concern to you.

As far as MIDI goes, leave your soundblaster installed for MIDI input!

Slackmaster 2000
 
ZiggY! said:
technically you could, tho you;d only record one track on the computer. You could run the for mic's thru the mixer, get the levels set then record via stereo out... its pretty impractical tho

get a Delta44 or if you have to $$ get an aardvark Q10, it has preamps and everything in it...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I follow what your saying.

He can already record two simultaneous channels via the Audigy's stereo line in. Putting a mixer in front of it wouldn't allow him to record four seperate microphones simultaneously.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Ah wait...the Audigy2 has TWO mic ins? For sure? Can you record from both mic inputs at the same time WHILE recording from the line input as well? If so, you've got four inputs already. Not great, but you'd have em.

Slackmaster 2000
 
i've done it with an old yamaha cassette deck four track... i plugged a mic into each of the four channel inputs, then adjusted the leaves on the mixer to get it to sound ok then using either the stereo output RCA's or the Monitoring output RCA's (i cant remmeber it was a long time ago) i plugged it into the line in on my computer using a rca to 1/8stereo Y cable... you record everything that is heard thru the 4 mic's, and the hum of the crappy mixer :)

but like i said, impractical... it isnt possible to even adjust the levels once recorded
 
Slackmaster2K said:
Ah wait...the Audigy2 has TWO mic ins? For sure? Can you record from both mic inputs at the same time WHILE recording from the line input as well? If so, you've got four inputs already. Not great, but you'd have em.

Slackmaster 2000
Click to expand...


i've never seen an audigy 2, i'm just talking about using the line in...
 
You're missing the point. What you get with that method is a stereo mix of 4 microphones that you can't later seperate. We're talking about recording each microphone to its own track, such that it can be manipulated independently from the others.

Slackmaster 2000
 
yeah i know... he just asked for a way to record four mic's, this is one way tho i dont recommend it, thats why i said its impractical and to get a delta44 :)
 
Slack's suggestion is good -- but here's another way.

For just a little bit more (500. new, I've seen it for 450. new on Ebay), pick up an Aardvark DirectPro 24/96.

This will give you 4 inputs with darn decent preamps and phantom power, real-time monitoring with compression, limited EQ, and reverb, and it even comes with a copy of Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, so you have the software for multitracking if you don't have that already.

The Q10 has the same preamps and has more inputs, but its more expensive and doesn't have the built in effects. Having a built in reverb for monitoring is very nice -- no latency problems.

-lee-
 
Wow do I feel dumb. I didn't realize a mixer only had a "combined output", not outs for each channel. (Like DUH! it's a mixer, right?) :)

OK, about the sound card -- I guess I do have 4 inputs with this audigy2, but what a mix and match way to do it -- I mean there's 1/8" Mic1, 1/4" Mic2, 1/8"Line in1, and combined L&R RCA jacks input for 4 total. Yuck...thank you for pointing a better way. :)

The problem was w/ the MIDI, because I was going to sell this Audigy2 to my Uncle (he's not a musician, just a multimedia user), and then get a new sound board.
I like the Aardvark Pro 24/96 in that it has MIDI and it is expandable -- so in the end, I could have up to 16 Line ins! Wonder how much the extra break-out boxes are, though?
Anyway, what do you all think? I should have said earlier that I'd be getting rid of the Audigy2... because overall, maybe the Aardvark would be cheaper than a Delta, because I'd have to get a seperate MIDI interface...

Jed
 
everyone that i have spoken to that has used an aardvark card said they are great... most swear by them...

i recommend one!

the only question you really have to ask tho is,

How many channels will i need?

if you are going to get an Aardvark Pro 24/96, then expand it a few months later would it be smarter to spent the extra money and grab aardvark Q10 to begin with? the Q10 can be expanded to have up to 48 channel inputs. It also has midi in's and out's


http://www.aardvarkaudio.com/aasd-v1/products/q10-main.html

http://www.aardvarkaudio.com/aasd-v1/products/2496-main.html

anyway... take a look :)
 
Jedman said:
Wow do I feel dumb. I didn't realize a mixer only had a "combined output", not outs for each channel. (Like DUH! it's a mixer, right?) :)

OK, about the sound card -- I guess I do have 4 inputs with this audigy2, but what a mix and match way to do it -- I mean there's 1/8" Mic1, 1/4" Mic2, 1/8"Line in1, and combined L&R RCA jacks input for 4 total. Yuck...thank you for pointing a better way. :)

The problem was w/ the MIDI, because I was going to sell this Audigy2 to my Uncle (he's not a musician, just a multimedia user), and then get a new sound board.
I like the Aardvark Pro 24/96 in that it has MIDI and it is expandable -- so in the end, I could have up to 16 Line ins! Wonder how much the extra break-out boxes are, though?
Anyway, what do you all think? I should have said earlier that I'd be getting rid of the Audigy2... because overall, maybe the Aardvark would be cheaper than a Delta, because I'd have to get a seperate MIDI interface...

Jed
Click to expand...

actually mixers usually do have outputs for each channel as well as a combined output :)
 
Well shoot...this could get expensive...I'm just trying to decide how many channels I'd ever use. The songs I was thinking about recording have 4 parts (quartet), so there's 4 right there...then if you get a piano, guitar, violin, etc...more parts for the instruments.
Can I just mix all the voices into one track if I have to? I guess another way to do it would be to record the music first; then playback the music and record the singers at the same time. That would require more time, but probably better quality, right?

Well, no one makes a 6 input card, do they? I mean jumping from 4 to 10 is a big jump. I'll think about, I guess.
Thanks,
Jed
 
Hey guys, I was checking out the Terratec EWS-88MT 8x8 i/o w/ spdif digital/midi. It has 8 ins and 8 outs...pretty decent price too. Which has better quality, the Delta, Aardvark, or a Terratec?

Can someone tell me which is better - seperate pre-amps like the audio buddies, or a mixer that has built in pre amps, and an output for each channel?

Thanks,
Jed
 
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