Please, critique my first attempt to record & mix using Tascam 424 MkII

[Ginazgifs]

Okay guys, this is my first attempt at tracking on a Tascam 424, and mixing down on a Pioneer CD burner. So, be gentle.

This is just a rough mix, cause I'm still trying to figure out how all this stuff works.

I think that the vocals were recorded a bit too hot, cause I seem to get a little distortion on certain passages, and I think that there might be too much reverb on the vocals too. Cause, the vocals don't seem to be out front enough. The acoustic guitar seems too thin and might need a little low en EQ.

>>>> That's my novice 2 cents, but I thought that I would share it with you guys, since most of you have been doing this for a while, and have lots of experience. So, I would love to hear some of your thoughts, and constructive criticism about what I can do to improve the mix.
Thanks for listening everybody!

Demo song 1

TRACKING: Tascam 424 MkII w/ No DBX engaged
12 String Guitar - XXL-990 Condenser Mic, (positioned between Sound hole & lower body)
Elec Guitar - SM-57 Dynamic, (close mic'd, positioned 45 degree-top right hand corner of speaker w/ 5 watt tube amp in bathroom in bathtub.
Vocals - MXL-67vg Condenser (located slightly above singers mouth and at a slight angle pointed downward)

MIXDOWN: Pioneer PDR-555RW CD burner, Fostex PM05 Nearfields Monitors, Zoom RFX-1000 Digital Reverb.
Vocals
Effects: Reverb (through EFX Sends)
Pan: Dead Center
EQ: None

12 String
Effects: None,
Pan: slight Left 11 o'clock,
EQ: HI - slightly reduced (11 o'clock) MID - slight increase (1 o'clock) LOW - reduced (11 o'clcock)

Elec. Guitar
Effects: slight reverb (through EFX Sends)
Pan: Slight right (1 o'clock)
EQ: HIGH - slight boost (1 o'clock)

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Sounds pretty good! I hear some real talent.

The 12 string sound just about right on my system here. I wouldn't change anything.

The vocals are lacking a bit of sheen in the upper mids and highs so I might suggest a slight 4Khz boost and maybe dropping the reverb slightly. The tracking overload isn't really all that noticeable and especially to someone who's just listening to the words and the good singing skills.

The electric guitar has a pretty nasally tone to it that should be smoothed out a bit by cutting the 2Khz range and adding a bit of bottom end around the 200hz range. The overall level of that guitar could also come down a hair in the mix as it seems to step on the vocals in a few spots.

Not too shabby for a first effort!

Cheers!

 

[almachurchchoir]

very good! excellent singing. get rid of the verb tail, make the reverb invisible (eq). I would suggest a very, very short reverb for the acoustic to beef it up, you could double the track and pan it hard left right. add a bit of eq at the bottom, only a bit and you´ll be fine. leave the vox dead center.
the electric should come down a little bit in volume. as ghost mentioned, turn down 2k a bit. don´t know if the zoom can handle delays. if so, give it a very short delay, almost a slap back echo style, but at a very very subtle level. that will place the electric deeper into the mix than a long reverb tail.
and the levels aren´t too hot, I think it´s just fine.
keep up the good work, for a first recording on a new machine this one smokes already!

andreas

 

[recordrecord]

very good

I Like the 12 string.The vocals are a little distorted.Sounds like the preamp is a couple of notches over.MXL76.. that a tube mic?I have an MXL9000 tube mic and they carry a very strong signal .I like the nice midranged distorted guitar but might need to come down a little.Other than that,sounds great.

 

[A Reel Person]

I'll take a shot at this one.

First, I was wondering why no dbx? I know lots of people rate dbx-NR as a tone-sucker, but I've never had a problem with it, and no doubt it supresses tape hiss.

Then, I noticed right off there was no hiss, however, when the song kicked in, I'd say it lacks proper amplitude (loudness), so naturally with a signal that low tape hiss is inaudible.

The song was nice, & reminiscent of the Rolling Stones, (imo). It's certainly a tight and well played demo. I give you points on composition and performance.

For reference,... though I'm a no-talent hack, I produced a "demo" on the 424mkIII recently that I feel has proper amplitude and signal levels. Tape hiss is barely audible on the intro, and is therefore not an issue to me, relative to the entire recording. YMMV. It's this and songs like this that I compare other people's Portastudio recordings. I have a huge number of other recordings recorded on the 424mkII, if you need more examples, but this one was done on the 424mkIII. The 424mkII and mkIII should have relatively the same fidelity. This is simply my most recent cut.

424mkII demo recorded on 02/11/07: (Ramones cover)

 

[Ginazgifs]

Thanks Everybody!!!

Hey Everybody
Thanks for all the great input and lots of positive encouragement!!!
Everyone offered some very constructive with real suggestions.

I really had a blast making my first recording and mix. I have been lurking on this forum for the past several months, and have asked a few questions from time to time, trying to prepare myself. So, I appreciate the help that everyone has provided in the past. It was very cool finally taking the plunge.

The singer/songwriter really appreciated all the compliments. He had a sore throat when we tracked the vocals, so his voice was not up to snuff that day. So, he was feeling a bit discouraged. But, was pleased when everyone liked the song.

It was refreshing to hear that most of you didn't seem to think that the distortion was that bad. It was killing me when I realized that I recorded the vocals too hot. (BTW: the vocal mic was a MXL-v67g condenser check it out - not a tube) I found the vocals really difficult to keep the levels in control without spiking~ Originally, I tried recording the vocals with a little compression, to try and keep down the plosives by using a ART Tube MP preamp, and then into a a simple DBX 163x (one slider control) compressor. But, unfortunately, I struggled with trying to fine tune the OUTPUT, INPUT levels on the preamp, and the LEVEL control on the compressor, along with the GAIN on the 424, so I just gave up and decided to go directly into the 424 using an external phantom power box using the 424's preamps. I'm thinking that I probably had the 424 Gain a bit too high?

Also, we recorded the 12 string guitar a click track on Track 4 using a Roland CR-5000 rhythm machine, and for some reason, after we record both parts the rhythm machine ended up bleeding through all the tracks~ even when all the faders and master faders are complete down, I can still hear a ghost of the click in the background???? (if you listen to the demo, you can faintly hear the click rhythm in the background. I just cant figure out what I did wrong to make that happened. Was the click track signal too hot, and found its way to all the tracks?? so, if anyone can help me trouble shoot that problem, that would

I'm planning on re mixing the song, and will try to incorporate a lot of everyone's suggestions. So, if anyone can offer any additional help, with some of my dilemmas, that would be super cool!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

A "nice" compressor can be a vital part of any recording set up and it sounds like you could make use of a really nice compressor!

There just so happens to be a really nice product on the market called the RNC which stands for...Really Nice Compressor!

They're pretty simple to set up, not very expensive and sound like other models which sell for upwards of a couple of thousand bucks...no joke.

I use one in my system and use it for everything from vocals, to bass guitar to stereo mastering.

http://www.fmraudio.com/RNC1773.HTM

Cheers!

 

[SteveM]

Interesting, digital controls but all analog signal path. I could deal with that. So you recommend eh? Is it as invisible as they say?

A "nice" compressor can be a vital part of any recording set up and it sounds like you could make use of a really nice compressor!

There just so happens to be a really nice product on the market called the RNC which stands for...Really Nice Compressor!

They're pretty simple to set up, not very expensive and sound like other models which sell for upwards of a couple of thousand bucks...no joke.

I use one in my system and use it for everything from vocals, to bass guitar to stereo mastering.

http://www.fmraudio.com/RNC1773.HTM

Cheers!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

So you recommend eh? Is it as invisible as they say?

Absolutely.

It sounds very transparent.

I'd classify it as one of those rare magic wands that really does everything it claims it will and at $200 bucks, it's a no-brainer.

Cheers!

 

[Ginazgifs]

A "nice" compressor can be a vital part of any recording set up and it sounds like you could make use of a really nice compressor!

There just so happens to be a really nice product on the market called the RNC which stands for...Really Nice Compressor!

They're pretty simple to set up, not very expensive and sound like other models which sell for upwards of a couple of thousand bucks...no joke.

I use one in my system and use it for everything from vocals, to bass guitar to stereo mastering.

Thank you for the info Ghost! I will give that compressor a try, and see if it helps. The vocals were really hard for me to get an even record level, I found it difficult to prevent the vocals from not spiking and distorting.

What's the best way to hook up a compressor for tracking with the 424 portastudio, especially since the 424 doesn't have insert jacks on each channel?

Should I go, mic--> preamp---> RNC compressor--> Tascam 424? or is there another way to go? Thanks again!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Should I go, Mic--> preamp---> RNC compressor--> Tascam 424?

Yup!

That'll do just fine.

When setting it all up, have your vocalist hit his/her loudest possible sung note or passage of the take in question and set the level of your pre-amp for that just below it's clipping level, send that to the RNC and use the super nice mode which combines three different types of compression curves to smooth it all out, keep its levels at the 0db unity gain settings and then feed that into the 424 at nominal gain trim settings for a line input signal and adjust the main channel fader to feed the recording buss a signal that's peaking at 0vu and all should be nice and clean without any clipping.

Cheers!

 

[Ginazgifs]

use the super nice mode

very cool, since this is all still very new to me, at this point I gotta love any device that has a "super nice mode" Thanks FM!

The only thing that I'm a little lost about is how to add a preamp to the signal chain, and connecting it all to the 424.

What's the best way to adjust my preamps INPUT level and OUTPUT level, so that I get minimal noise, and the strongest signal?

Right now, I would be going into the 424 from the RNC using a 1/4" TS cable. Do I keep the trim knob on the Tascam 424 all the way OFF (counterclockwise) and only adjust the preamp gain for volume, or should I use the both the 424's trim knob, and the preamps gain together, and adjust both of them to get the best optimum levels?

The preamp I'm using is a cheap little ART MP Studio, (its all I can afford right now) that has a INPUT knob, and an OUTPUT, and I'm a little confuses of how to use it with the 424, and what knob does what?

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Setting levels in a daisy chain is a bit of tricky task to do successfully but it becomes a bit more easy to pull off if your gear gives some sort of indication by way of metering or clip lights to tell you when your in or out of range.

Let's start with your pre-amp. Thanks for posting a picture of it!

You've stated that its a lower priced model and I apologize for not being familiar with its specs and layout. It offers metering and an overload LED to tell you how strong your signal is. Make use of them to get some form of a healthy signal going out of it that is around 0vu on the meter and isn't clipping. The priority is to not have the clipping light come on and the general level on the vu meter will give you a loose indication of how much range the compressor is going to have to make up or stomp down on.

Feeding that signal now to the RNC, you'll want to adjust it so that you're getting the desired amount of gain reduction via compression and peak limiting to suite the needs of the performance. This is largely achieved by setting the input threshold control. When you select setting that are below the 0db mark on the dial, you asking it to compress a given amount of dynamics expressed in decibels. Then, with the output knob, you're going to want to adjust that to make back the overall level that the compressor just finished squashing down. The amount of that adjustment is going to depend on how much gain you want to send to your Portastudio's input and obviously, you want the 424's input trim to be set as low as possible so that it generates the least amount of noise; this should be somewhere in the 10 o'clock position of the knob's range. Then finally, you'll want to adjust the channel's fader control to feed a good level to tape, ideally somewhere around the hash mark area of the fader, usually 7 on it's scale of 0 to 10.

All of this takes a bit of time and experimenting with to find the best settings on the dials so I can't give you specific numbers to dial in on the pre-amp and compressor as a lot of that is going to depend on the singer's performance dynamics.

Any clearer this time?

Cheers!

 

[the cool one]

Sounds real good to me.