Please advise on indoor video recording

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yashiharu

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condition:
1) indoor room about 10m x 10m
2) record conversation
3) peoples will not always stay on a spot
4) Lavalier mic is not possible
5) env noise is acceptable
6) mount on ceiling at center OR tripod outside the 10m x 10m

tried:
Zoom H1 on the ceiling at the centre of the room
result:
not good at all, conversations hard to hear

does a shotgun mic could help?
should i use multiple mic with mixer?
any recommendation? (low budget, mic ~$300 max.)

thanks
 
I would think that a PZM would work great in this application
 
PZM is all-rounded
so it would capture not just the room, but also the conversation at the control panel no matter how it mounted , right?

that would be a problem ...
 
A PZM will pick up whatever you can hear where it is placed. If you can hear the conversation at the control panel then the mic is going to pick it up. BTW - you never mentioned anything you didn't want the mic to pick up.
 
Shotgun mic with a skilled boom operator.
 
i'm sorry, didn't mention there would be a video cameramans and a audio technicians around

will PZM pick up the sound from back side?
 
If the room isn't an issue, an omni mic in proximity. Possibly with a reflexion filter to make it semi-directional.

A shotgun with boom operator is common for this application.

If the camcorder is always pointed at the sound source, and the source doesn't talk away from the camcorder, a shotgun mic on camcorder should work.

If the subject moves, proximity is a plus.

If there's other sound sources besides the subject a mic that moves with the subject and has proximity is a plus. aka boom operator.
 
after more research, i may go for a shotgun mic.

any recommendation on Mixer? (USB to computer & portable)
 
shotgun is a good solution. The PZM style mic wasn't a bad suggestion either as they are either cardioid or hyper, and generally the back side of the mic is not picked up by the polar pattern. They are boundary mics for this reason.

Either way sounds like if the ZOOM (while more utilitarian approach) didn't get much vocal signal, then sounds like you will need to get either in tighter (better placement) or have lots of clean gain, so a cheap mixer with cheap pres might be a problem if gain is what you need.

A small Allen and Heath could get you there or even a cheaper Yamaha MG mixer, but if u need lots of gain and not doing the multiple mic approach, I might go just one or two channel and get something higher end in the pre arena.

Best of luck
 
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Bop Stop Studio said:
shotgun is a good solution. The PZM style mic wash;thad either as they are either cardioid or hyper, and generally the back side of the mic is not picked up by the polar pattern. They are called boundary mice for this reason.

Either way sounds like if the ZOOM (while more utilitarian approach) didm;t get much vocal signal, then sounds like you will need to get either in tighter (better placement) or have lots of clean gain, so a cheap mixer with cheap press might be a problem if gain is what you need.

A small Allen and Heath could get you there or even a cheaper Yamaha MG mixer, but if u need lots of gain and not doing the multiple mic approach, I might go just one or two channel and get something higher end in the pre arena.

Best of luck
Click to expand...

thanks for the advise

What do you think about: M-track + Audio Technica AT875 (total $400)
any better suggestions within the budget?
 
In this topic on another forum, there are some examples provided by the OP - the room is big and reverberant, and the OP is looking for a cheap solution that let's you hear people clearly - but without skilled people. It's a bit of no hoper really without close mics. Dance studios are the worst rooms to record in - 6 surfaces, all highly reflective, and parallel - yuk!
 
yashiharu said:
thanks for the advise

What do you think about: M-track + Audio Technica AT875 (total $400)
any better suggestions within the budget?
Click to expand...

Might work, but not what i would get.

The AT mic looks pretty nice and I might think about that, for the money AT makes nice stuff.

But the M-track looks a bit weak despite the gain specs the noise levels would negate use of hi gain and even if it didn't not sure these press would be worth paying money for. I know u mentioned earlier u didn't mind noise, but noise is you biggest problem when the signal is very low and need lots of gain. Clarity is critical to have the speech be intelligible.

I would maybe buy the AT and if just one single channel get an APOGEE ONE. Will be much better.

If u have a bit more dough get a 2 channel RME baby face, focusrite forte, apogee duet, or even the steinberg 2 channel interface. These are certainly a couple steps above the Mtrack and worth having for their performance but also they are quite flexible in function and well built products.

Proximity effects from the spread of the sound sources might still be an issue that multiple mice would help address, but I don;t know how spread out the voices are. IN other words, some voices might be loud if closer in proximity and direction to the mic diaphragm then those further away or off axis to mic.

The shotgun mic might be sensitive enough but it is very directional by design. Again, I don't know your layout but another reason to instead buy two mics maybe small condensers or more and get them closer to each source.
 
thanks.

so AT-875R $170 in the cart.

APOGEE ONE: $349 seems lack of phantom power for the mic

Two channel seems better, BUT ...
focusrite forte: $349 a bit over budget, may consider
APOGEE DUET: $595 out of budget ... too much
RME baby face: $700 out of budget ... no hope

How about:
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2: $150
Steinberg UR22: $150
Steinberg Ci1$100
Avid Mbox: $125
Avid Fast Track Duo $170
TASCAM US-144MKII $200


if compare with size & weight (for field recording - interview/documentary), How about the following device:
Zoom H4n $300
TASCAM DR-100MKII $220
SONY PCM-M10 $220

omg, just too much choices ...
 
Ahhh nice work,

I think the AT will be a solid shotgun mic to have.

If you can swing the Focusrite Forte, I would. The press are quiet, clean, and have lots of good gain.

If I had to choose tom the second list, I would go Steinberg UR22, I have used numerous interfaces and I find the stein berg press to also be clean, quiet, and have lots go gain too. Not a bad option either. I think the Forte is slightly better, but close. Has good DAC sound as well.

if u had time and didm;t mind used, I would actually find a Apogee MiniMe, I used to have that 2 channel preamp, with it ADC that was very good too, portable and solid. I liked that little unit a lot and hadn't looked but last month pone sold for $360 on the bay. Also I have seen 8 channel MR816x stein bergs go for under $350 used. 8 good press/8 ADC/8 DAC headphone and digital inputs SPDIF/ADAT not bad.


Either of these work.

The last list might work, but...I have a Zoom H4N for example and yes, while people love them it is only decent for spot tracking. When I need something on the fly 2-4 channels and bring a stereo pair of SDCs I use the ZOOM, mostly for lower quality U tube video sound integration purposes. That said, while the sound is good and usable, the preamps have limited gain, well limited gain before noise. The noise floor is not great and with anything above 25% gets hiss inserted. I actually use a steinberg MR816 for location tracking as it has everything I need on the fly. For more elaborate gigs, I would bring a host of preamps, but the 8 on the steinberg sound really good.

When I need tons of tracks in the studio, I use the Steinbergs for the AD conversion without a significant loss in quality compared to millennia ADC and others. Not as good, but quite good. The DAC on the MR is excellent in my opinion.

I am sure the UR22 is long these lines too. or Forte sounds really good for sure if u can swing it.
 
then i leave the Zoom H1 for field recording

Buy a AT875R for $170 and focusrite forte for ... i was wrong ... Amazon tag it $420 ...
and both of them don't ship international ...
I have to figure out how to get one.

"Luckily" the local store is on sale - yea!!!!!
Discount price for the focusrite forte is $500 ... ...
(I just watch a video about Forte vs Duet, duet got usb noise ... so $500 ... OMG!)

the cost now rise to $670 ...

Although i like the outlook(to all my mac), size, monitor & software of Focusrite Forte
have to compromise to the budget ...
Steinberg UR22


Off-topic, I have a USB AT2020, it's good enough for me, very convenience to use.
just wonder if the original AT2020 is better (to sold the use one and get a XLR)?
 
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I think the stein berg will do great. Not the forte, but damn close. It has a nice DAC sound and the pres are very good.

never used a USB mic, so can't comment.

but for me, positioning a USB me would be an issue. USB cabe lengths shouldn't go very far, so outside of conversion issues, the physical limitations of USB mics make them not for me.

You did good with the UR unit. I would upgrade from there, unless you are going to another level, such as the Mytek, Burl, Benchmark etc....

So should get some good use out of it in the meantime!!!

I think stein berg comes with cubase at least AI version or something, they integrate very well with cubase and w/ plug ins I know the MR units have excellent integration into cubase w/ no need for MR editor software use. In that respect the Steinberg Cubase combo really works. Not sure if it comes with FX plug ins, but the Yamaha Reverb X is very good and the comp /Eq/ and other channel strips are usable for sure. I still mostly use analog gear for that, but I often use the verb and sometimes other plug ins.
 
Just video the performance without sound then ... dub in the conversation after in a controlled environment.


:thumbs up:
 
Question on Focusrite Forte:

1) field recording
my Zoom H1 has no XLR input, i would like to connect the XLR microphone with Forte and then output to H1
the XLR requires phantom power:
1A 5V battery pack <-> Forte(XLR mic connected) <-> Zoom H1

Q: Can a 13000mAh battery pack (used to charge iphone) @ 1A 5V to support the Forte for the 48v phantom power?
 
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