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michael.butler
New member
Any clues on how to emulate the bass sound brian wilson used on pet sounds, good vibrations etc.
Michael
Michael
cominginsecond
Decentralized Media Mogul
I don't have any idea, but it makes me really happy to see a fellow Brian Wilson fan on this board. His recordings have been quite an inspiration to me.
I'm pretty sure that on "God Only Knows" he had a wood block play the exact same rhythm as the bass part, and it took me a while to realize that they were two different instruments. I just thought he somehow put a "click" in the bass. Anyway, I don't know if that helps at all, but that's all I can think of for now.
Do you have any mp3s of your recordings to download?
I'm pretty sure that on "God Only Knows" he had a wood block play the exact same rhythm as the bass part, and it took me a while to realize that they were two different instruments. I just thought he somehow put a "click" in the bass. Anyway, I don't know if that helps at all, but that's all I can think of for now.
Do you have any mp3s of your recordings to download?
cominginsecond
Decentralized Media Mogul
Also, if you don't mind me taking an off-topic moment here, do you know where I could get my hands on a decent sounding Smile bootlegs? All I have are some really, really, crappy sounding MP3s.
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michael.butler
New member
Can't help you on the bootlegs. Fact is, I have nothing of smile. Wish I did.
As big a music fan as I've been all my life, I never gave beachboys much of a chance until about a year ago. I watched brian's biography one night. Started downloading the next day like a fiend. Was able to borrow two box sets froma friend, and the rest is history. I'm a junky for it now.
That bass sound. You don't really hear it anywhere else (from other artists I mean) I've wondered if that clicky sound was some kind of slap delay, but the wood block makes sense too. And there's a lot of treble. And you know it's a fender, cause on the good vibrations box set, when you hear him talking between takes, he says "play the fender bass." Do you have that box set. It's so cool.
Have you heard the shins?
michael
As big a music fan as I've been all my life, I never gave beachboys much of a chance until about a year ago. I watched brian's biography one night. Started downloading the next day like a fiend. Was able to borrow two box sets froma friend, and the rest is history. I'm a junky for it now.
That bass sound. You don't really hear it anywhere else (from other artists I mean) I've wondered if that clicky sound was some kind of slap delay, but the wood block makes sense too. And there's a lot of treble. And you know it's a fender, cause on the good vibrations box set, when you hear him talking between takes, he says "play the fender bass." Do you have that box set. It's so cool.
Have you heard the shins?
michael
cominginsecond
Decentralized Media Mogul
Michael, I predict a long and fruitful electronic friendship for us.
I love the Shins. They have to be the best band to come down the pike since Quasi (do you like those guys?) They're record is so amazing, and I really like the recording, though I would have liked a little higher fidelity on the drums.
I regret to say that I don't have the Pet Sounds box set. I've been planning to get it for a long time.
I would seriously love to hear whatever you're working on. I have a few mp3s I could post links to too, if you're at all interested.
I love the Shins. They have to be the best band to come down the pike since Quasi (do you like those guys?) They're record is so amazing, and I really like the recording, though I would have liked a little higher fidelity on the drums.
I regret to say that I don't have the Pet Sounds box set. I've been planning to get it for a long time.
I would seriously love to hear whatever you're working on. I have a few mp3s I could post links to too, if you're at all interested.
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
Pet Sounds does have a cool sound to it. It's cool how he could use so much reverb but still have a lot of space and clarity.
You guys into Beachwood Sparks? I didnt like the at first but they are starting to grow on me. They do a sorta Beach Boys meets the Greatfull Dead kinda thing.
You guys into Beachwood Sparks? I didnt like the at first but they are starting to grow on me. They do a sorta Beach Boys meets the Greatfull Dead kinda thing.
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Oysterman
New member
That doesn't necessarily mean anything, since "Fender bass" was the common way of saying "electric bass" back in the old days.michael.butler said:
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michael.butler
New member
yeah, oyster, but you know it's a fender.
comingin--the drums on the shins record do leave a bit to be desired, but otherwise it's a pretty cool recording. i'm pretty sure they did it themselves.
hopefully soon i'll have something to post for listeners though i'm fairly new at recording. you might like some of my last project although i probably overused the sleigh bell a bit. ialso had some fun layering tons of bop bops as backing vox. did you ever listen the pernice brothers? i'd really love to hear something from you as well.
i record on a vs2480. i'm not even sure i know how to convert what i have recorded to something that could be posted. what's involved there? software i probably don't own. i really wanna find out though.
tex--i saw the beachwood sparks open for wilco a couple of years ago. that live show didn't particularly strike me, but they were pretty new at the time i think. i've read wonderful things about their most recent record, and i've been very interested in getting it. they ARE deadish/wilsonesque w/ a little byrds/flying burrito influence thrown in for good measure. they recorded the new record w/ the guy from dinosaur jr. i think.
there IS a lotta verb on the pet sounds bass. i wonder how it's eq'ed.
michael
comingin--the drums on the shins record do leave a bit to be desired, but otherwise it's a pretty cool recording. i'm pretty sure they did it themselves.
hopefully soon i'll have something to post for listeners though i'm fairly new at recording. you might like some of my last project although i probably overused the sleigh bell a bit. ialso had some fun layering tons of bop bops as backing vox. did you ever listen the pernice brothers? i'd really love to hear something from you as well.
i record on a vs2480. i'm not even sure i know how to convert what i have recorded to something that could be posted. what's involved there? software i probably don't own. i really wanna find out though.
tex--i saw the beachwood sparks open for wilco a couple of years ago. that live show didn't particularly strike me, but they were pretty new at the time i think. i've read wonderful things about their most recent record, and i've been very interested in getting it. they ARE deadish/wilsonesque w/ a little byrds/flying burrito influence thrown in for good measure. they recorded the new record w/ the guy from dinosaur jr. i think.
there IS a lotta verb on the pet sounds bass. i wonder how it's eq'ed.
michael
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michael.butler
New member
comingin--also, if you haven't already, you MUST check out the chamber strings. they're from chicago. VERY pet sounds style pop.
W
Whyte Ice
The Next Vanilla Ice
Here's some info for ya.
Carol Kaye, the woman who played bass on Pet Sounds used a Fender Precision Bass through an Fender Concert Amp Open Back 4-10". She played with a hard pick using medium gauge flatwound strings.
Carol Kaye, the woman who played bass on Pet Sounds used a Fender Precision Bass through an Fender Concert Amp Open Back 4-10". She played with a hard pick using medium gauge flatwound strings.
cordura21
New member
Carol Kaye has an ancient internet site with lots of playing tips. Check them out here .
I also heard that recording when he says "now organ and fender bass". I guess that your best bet is to go to the Beach Boys Newsgroup. There's plenty of info on bootlegs over there.
I also heard that recording when he says "now organ and fender bass". I guess that your best bet is to go to the Beach Boys Newsgroup. There's plenty of info on bootlegs over there.
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michael.butler
New member
very cool guys! I'll check it out. Thanks.
darrin_h2000
Banned
I wonder if any of the Charles Manson Recordings are there as well. Brian wilson recorded his stuff right before the night charlie took out his agressions on every neighbor that complained about the noise.
I heard some of it on VH1 and It was ok, folk stuff not anything like Maryln Manson.
I heard some of it on VH1 and It was ok, folk stuff not anything like Maryln Manson.
cordura21
New member
There was a song called "Cease To Exist" (pretty modern title, right?) made by Manson. He told Dennis Wilson, the Beach Boys drummer, that they could record it if they didn't change the lyrics.
Well, they did and released it as "Never Learn Not To Love".
Of course he was pissed off, and went after Dennis. He didn't find him, so he left a bullet to the guy who answered the door saying "this is for Dennis". What a story, eh?
They also say you can hear recordingws of one of Dennis and Cahrlie orgies at the end of "All I wanna do". Both songs are on the album called "20/20".
Cheers, Andrés
Well, they did and released it as "Never Learn Not To Love".
Of course he was pissed off, and went after Dennis. He didn't find him, so he left a bullet to the guy who answered the door saying "this is for Dennis". What a story, eh?
They also say you can hear recordingws of one of Dennis and Cahrlie orgies at the end of "All I wanna do". Both songs are on the album called "20/20".
Cheers, Andrés
B
Boo Boo Foo
New member
Funny thing about a good bass guitar sound... and this is my personal experience but I rather think it travels well.
First and foremost, yes Carol played a Fender Precision for Brian Wilson and yes, it was a lovely tone to be sure. Now, also consider Sting from The Police. He also plays a Fender Precision and did so on all the The Police recordings.
Consider this fascinating aspect about a good bass guitar sound. Even on a shitty little transistor radio with zero bass freq response we can still hear that gorgeous bass guitar riff to "Good Vibrations" or the lovely staccato riff played by Sting on "Roxanne".
Most people think that bass guitar is supposed to be precisely that - booming low frequencies so low they'll shake the house. Sorry, wrong answer. Such earth shaking sounds are actually the job of your kick drum and floor toms.
The job of Bass Guitar is to hold and sustain the root note, and or similarly important notes to the melody which is being played in concert with it at that time. Singularly, the greatest defining aspect to a good bass guitar sound is 'sustain' - that is, the ability for a note to hover without decaying off into silence. Next, after that, the most important aspect is just plain mid range tone around 500-800 hz. Believe it or not, it is THOSE frequencies which we're hearing most of the time in a song - and it's THOSE frequencies which are signalling to our ears "Hey there's some serious bass going on here which you could hear if you had the decent speakers dude!"
Guitars are quite different beasts - they are laden with harmonc nodes throught the length of their strings. Just by choosing a different plectrum position on the string adjusts the tone of what you're hearing.
Conversely, bass guitar is about holding that one 'pure' note with little or no overlaying harmonics.
So, in closing, the secrets to good bass playing are this... a really tight drummer with a great kick work. The kick drum almost always should play in concert with the bass guitarist. Timing is everything. As a bass player, the closer your timing with your kick drum, the more 'killer' you sound. Next, lots of sustain. Go thu a compressor if need be. Your notes should not drop by more than 3 db over a two second period with just one note I find. Lastly, just dial in those mid range freqs guys. Try upping your freq over 1.0Q by 6db between 500 and 800Hz. If you factor in everything I just mentioned above, by and large, you'll be able to sound like any bass player in history. (Within reason of course... I recognise there are some million notes per second freaks out there but they don't do much for my musical ear sadly).
Remember, rare indeed is the bass guitarist who sounded good without a killer drummer. Follow that golden rule I mentioned earlier and you'll kick a goal everytime. The kick drum and your bass notes are siamese twins separated at birth but they should do everything together in perfect timing.
That being said, now go back to Pet Sounds and have a listen to how good the drumming was and you'll see what I mean. You'll find the kick drum was actually quite loud for it's day and it was no accident that Brian Wilson made a point of forbidding Dennis Wilson from playing on the record. Brian's tunes by that stage had FAR surpassed Dennis's abilities. Indeed, if you ever see any Beach Boys video's of Good Vibrations it's just plain embarassing how out of time Dennis is playing even though he's just miming.
First and foremost, yes Carol played a Fender Precision for Brian Wilson and yes, it was a lovely tone to be sure. Now, also consider Sting from The Police. He also plays a Fender Precision and did so on all the The Police recordings.
Consider this fascinating aspect about a good bass guitar sound. Even on a shitty little transistor radio with zero bass freq response we can still hear that gorgeous bass guitar riff to "Good Vibrations" or the lovely staccato riff played by Sting on "Roxanne".
Most people think that bass guitar is supposed to be precisely that - booming low frequencies so low they'll shake the house. Sorry, wrong answer. Such earth shaking sounds are actually the job of your kick drum and floor toms.
The job of Bass Guitar is to hold and sustain the root note, and or similarly important notes to the melody which is being played in concert with it at that time. Singularly, the greatest defining aspect to a good bass guitar sound is 'sustain' - that is, the ability for a note to hover without decaying off into silence. Next, after that, the most important aspect is just plain mid range tone around 500-800 hz. Believe it or not, it is THOSE frequencies which we're hearing most of the time in a song - and it's THOSE frequencies which are signalling to our ears "Hey there's some serious bass going on here which you could hear if you had the decent speakers dude!"
Guitars are quite different beasts - they are laden with harmonc nodes throught the length of their strings. Just by choosing a different plectrum position on the string adjusts the tone of what you're hearing.
Conversely, bass guitar is about holding that one 'pure' note with little or no overlaying harmonics.
So, in closing, the secrets to good bass playing are this... a really tight drummer with a great kick work. The kick drum almost always should play in concert with the bass guitarist. Timing is everything. As a bass player, the closer your timing with your kick drum, the more 'killer' you sound. Next, lots of sustain. Go thu a compressor if need be. Your notes should not drop by more than 3 db over a two second period with just one note I find. Lastly, just dial in those mid range freqs guys. Try upping your freq over 1.0Q by 6db between 500 and 800Hz. If you factor in everything I just mentioned above, by and large, you'll be able to sound like any bass player in history. (Within reason of course... I recognise there are some million notes per second freaks out there but they don't do much for my musical ear sadly).
Remember, rare indeed is the bass guitarist who sounded good without a killer drummer. Follow that golden rule I mentioned earlier and you'll kick a goal everytime. The kick drum and your bass notes are siamese twins separated at birth but they should do everything together in perfect timing.
That being said, now go back to Pet Sounds and have a listen to how good the drumming was and you'll see what I mean. You'll find the kick drum was actually quite loud for it's day and it was no accident that Brian Wilson made a point of forbidding Dennis Wilson from playing on the record. Brian's tunes by that stage had FAR surpassed Dennis's abilities. Indeed, if you ever see any Beach Boys video's of Good Vibrations it's just plain embarassing how out of time Dennis is playing even though he's just miming.
cordura21
New member
that's a great post. I swear by God that as I was reading it they put "So Lonely" by the Police on the radio.
I always search for that sustained notes on the bass. It's like Alan Clayton's tone on "With or Without You".
And you're right about the drummers. Speaking again about U2, I remember this part of an interview at Bass Player:
It's nice to get that sound like the "mmm mmm" that the guy sings on that Crash Test Dummies song.
I always search for that sustained notes on the bass. It's like Alan Clayton's tone on "With or Without You".
And you're right about the drummers. Speaking again about U2, I remember this part of an interview at Bass Player:
It's nice to get that sound like the "mmm mmm" that the guy sings on that Crash Test Dummies song.
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michael.butler
New member
There's good drumming on pet sounds to be sure. But the sound of that bass is unmistakable. I could pick it out of a line up any time with or without the drums. Not just pet sounds. Listen to the intro to good vibrations. Nothing but organ, bass and vox...no drums. Even when the drums do come in, it's mostly snare and percussion you hear. Actually there's not much kick in the mix anywhere, but the bass always sounds cool.
darrin_h2000
Banned
By the way Sting plays a telebass.
Badger
Active member
I tried to record my dog, but he just wouldnt bark when I got him in the vocal booth
cordura21
New member
Michael: maybe she used a foam near the bridge with a very hard pick. That's a trick Carol Kaye and Paul McCartney(sp?) did a lot.
Look here:
http://www.carolkaye.com/www/education/tips51.htm
she talks about it on tips number 70, 100, 93, 91. That thread is a goldmine for any bass player. There's even a picture of it here
She also talks about how to record, that she doesn't change strings, she doesn't like Jazz bass for recordings, etc...
Enjoy
Look here:
http://www.carolkaye.com/www/education/tips51.htm
she talks about it on tips number 70, 100, 93, 91. That thread is a goldmine for any bass player. There's even a picture of it here
She also talks about how to record, that she doesn't change strings, she doesn't like Jazz bass for recordings, etc...
Enjoy