Payola Anyone? -- Shake That Laffy Taffy!!

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gullyjewelz

gullyjewelz

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THIS IS KINDA COOL -- THOUGH IT'S COMPLETELY DISGUSTING

"From Epic, home of J-Lo, a memo from Nov. 12, 2002, a "rate" card that shows radio stations in the

Top 23 markets will receive $1000,
Markets 23-100 get $800,
lower markets $500.

----"If a record receives less than 75 spins at any given radio station, we will not pay the full rate," the memo to DJs states."


see -- LINK -- for full article
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163537,00.html
 
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Even if it WAS true, I don't think anything is wrong with it really. If a band goes out and tours and is successul, they can afford to pay these rates... my band gets lots of radio exposure and we've never paid a cent.
 
You dont think theres anything WRONG with greasing radio stations??? Shit is supposed to be about the music, but thats from my perspective. Same three fucking songs doesnt help anyone in my opinion. Over exposure dulls new records quick, and the ones who cant afford or arent given priority in their labels (sometimes the best music) gets sidelined. Fuck that shit. And beleive this type of deal goes on whether or not you wanna open your eyes see it.
 
Not to mention it's illegal. But payola has been going on forever and will likely never stop.
 
MadAudio said:
Not to mention it's illegal. But payola has been going on forever and will likely never stop.
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It would stop real fast if the FCC yanked a station's license and auctioned it to the highest bidder. But they don't, so they must be paid for too :mad:
 
What kind of stations?

grn said:
Even if it WAS true, I don't think anything is wrong with it really. If a band goes out and tours and is successul, they can afford to pay these rates... my band gets lots of radio exposure and we've never paid a cent.
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Tier 1 stations or small market stations? Pretty easy to get material on stations that are under the radar. Sadly, even for semi-established signed acts, getting material on Mediabase tracked stations requires either an excellent promoter (who pays off the radio station) or a direct "contribution".

Sucks big time, but a reality of the business.
 
we haven't gotten on any HUGE stations, well... the biggest ones around virginia... but those aren't that big... but we've been played on a ClearChannel station before... and we didn't pay a dime... if that means anything
 
grn said:
we haven't gotten on any HUGE stations, well... the biggest ones around virginia... but those aren't that big... but we've been played on a ClearChannel station before... and we didn't pay a dime... if that means anything
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Don't take this as me talking shit at all, but it really doesn't mean much without knowing the frequency of your rotation, and the format of the show you were played on. I first learned of a favorite song and artist on a clearchannel station - Radio 104.1 modern rock, Hartford CT - during the weekly DJ's choice show. That artist has barely made a blip on the radar. There is of course a chance that someone heard you guys and fell in love in a like fashion.

However, realistically speaking, a few plays on any station, regardless of its size, is not likely to make a huge promotional difference for a band. Think of how many times you watch the same TV commercial withing a given period of time. Getting your song on the radio is certainly helpful, and is certainly an accomplishment, but unless you're in frequent rotation it isn't likely to make you a star.
 
Actually....

azraelswings said:
Don't take this as me talking shit at all, but it really doesn't mean much without knowing the frequency of your rotation, and the format of the show you were played on. I first learned of a favorite song and artist on a clearchannel station - Radio 104.1 modern rock, Hartford CT - during the weekly DJ's choice show. That artist has barely made a blip on the radar. There is of course a chance that someone heard you guys and fell in love in a like fashion.

However, realistically speaking, a few plays on any station, regardless of its size, is not likely to make a huge promotional difference for a band. Think of how many times you watch the same TV commercial withing a given period of time. Getting your song on the radio is certainly helpful, and is certainly an accomplishment, but unless you're in frequent rotation it isn't likely to make you a star.
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Cracking a Clear Channel station is a good sign. Now if it is in some small affiliate station in Bugtussle, MS....no big deal. If you are getting Clear Channel airplay in a major market, that's big time.
 
we're getting two major markets in VA, one is clear channel, the other is a community station... and we definitely get played several times a week, most of the time on the weekends
 
Good Stuff

grn said:
we're getting two major markets in VA, one is clear channel, the other is a community station... and we definitely get played several times a week, most of the time on the weekends
Click to expand...

A tough road, but good stuff. You should feel good about getting airplay from the CC station.
 
Mateo21 said:
Shit is supposed to be about the music, but thats from my perspective.
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This misses the point, and it's a common mistake, and a dangerous misconception. Frankly, it is a flaky argument.

The current cover story in Performing Songwriter does the same thing, and it really pissed me off. I read the article and thought, "how could the editors allow this idiot freelancer to miss the basic point?" Then I realized the piece was written by the editor. :eek:

It's NOT supposed to be about the music, and it has nothing to do with art being transcendent.

It's about public property - namely, the airwaves. The whole reason the FCC exists is to regulate the radio stations that use the public's airwaves.

That Performing Songwriter article compared payola to product placement in supermarkets! UGH!

Sprawl-Mart, as a private company using private land can conduct business as it sees fit, but the airwaves are public property (in theory).

Don't bring your dirty capital into my socialist amerika! ;)
 
What?

Do you have a point?

Radio play IS like supermarket placement. There have been instances of companies paying off stocking departments in order to put their product at eye level. In the same way radios take payola for prime airplay spots. IT IS supposed to be about the quality of the product, not where its located. You could make the argument that its all the same, but I would question your love of music. The difference between artists who do their thing to make GOOD music, and who always try to improve VS. groups who are put together simply to make a profit is HUGE. Examples: Michael Jackson vs. Justin Timberlake. Wu Tang vs. G unit. Im sure there are rock examples that I dont know of. It is about whos making better music, which is something people are losing sight of.
 
I don't see any difference between Michael Jackson and Justin Timberlake... most, if not all of their music is bad and they both started out in groups just to make money and ended up going solo mostly still to make money.
 
Mateo21 said:
There have been instances of companies paying off stocking departments in order to put their product at eye level. In the same way radios take payola for prime airplay spots. IT IS supposed to be about the quality of the product, not where its located. You could make the argument that its all the same, but I would question your love of music.
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The difference is that the airwaves are PUBLIC PROPERTY. Supermarkets are private enterprises, and their way of doing business is to exact premiums for placing suppliers products favorably. It is the norm of the supermarket industry and there is nothing wrong with it.

And you're right, payola happens in radio - it is the norm of the music industry - and it's disgusting. But airwaves are different than supermarkets.

I think we agree that payola is wrong (right?) and are differing on a very miniscule point - why payola is wrong. You seem to think it has something to do with artistic integrity, or some idealized notion of Artistic Expression being free from the constraints of market manipulation - I think, but I doin't want to put words into your mouth. I think payola is wrong because it uses public space for private enterprises, essentially privatizing what is federally mandated as airwaves intended for the public good.

I do respect your opinion; you're entitled to be flighty, dude.

BTW: I hate music. Especially suspended chords. :D
 
Well Im assuming that the stations who are recieving the payola are private enterprises. They may not own the airwaves but it doesnt make them any less of a business. I do disagree with your argument that "payola is wrong because it uses public space for private enterprise" because by that logic the entire idea of privately owned radio stations is wrong. Either way, at the end of the day artistic integrity isnt any stronger of an ideology. Money talks. Im just tired of hearing songs that are worth howevermany thousands of dollars to radio and they sound like shit. Your style of music might not have to deal with that. My personal opinion.
 
any style can be successful, it just takes intelligence and persistance - you really have to want to do it for a living, so saying your style of music doesn't have to deal with it is incorrect. there are only two reasons you would not be able to live off of your music - one is you are lazy... i.e. won't do the research and hard work to promote yourself and tour or two your music is just bad.
 
grn said:
any style can be successful, it just takes intelligence and persistance - you really have to want to do it for a living, so saying your style of music doesn't have to deal with it is incorrect. there are only two reasons you would not be able to live off of your music - one is you are lazy... i.e. won't do the research and hard work to promote yourself and tour or two your music is just bad.
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perhaps im lazy -- (i hate to think this is what my problem is, but im willing to swallow that jagged little pill - even if it kills me)
but i dont think that lazy is quite "correct" of a way to put it. music is an art. the making of it, that is. too many times people are told that if you are a real musician then u should be able to sell your music. i see this as a misnomer, a red herring, a false premise!!!! he who can make wonderful music is not the same as he who can sell music wonderfully. creating music (regardless of genre) is one art. selling it is another.
now in today's world, the bus. industry continues to tell the artist "you have to be able to sell your own music before we have interest in you"
while im not disagreeing with that, per se--to say that the artist must be lazy or wack if he CAN NOT sell his/her craft just seems wrong.

painters dont sell their paintings - brokers n agents do. yes, there are a few painters who might set up a canvas or two on the street and say "buy what i have painted" but that's a far cry from "living off your craft"
there is an art, science, business to selling something/anything/everything that is just as special, unique, and individualized as "creating" the music itself.
 
I can agree with that, you may not be the best salesmen... or promoter... or marketer... but it is highly unlikely that you or myself are the best musicians in the world, so our music will not sell itself and we must become the best at some other aspect of it so we can be successful. look at the beatles... not the greatest musicians ever, but they were the best or better than most at song writing and their manager was great at promotion. better than everyone else at promotion. if you're better than everyone else at promotion, you're the best at whatever it is you're selling, whether it be paintings or music.

you've also got to make yourself believe you are the best. perpetuate the lie until it becomes true. people can tell if you believe in yourself or not.

lastly, unfortunately for most people - their music is just bad.
 
My music is not weak. I feel I have honed my craft. Im only 18, and now Im looking into the business side of things. Its true you cant be lazy. It really doesnt have to be a lie as long as you have the music side down. You have to be able to make people beleive in your shit. Thats what Im figuring out. Im intrigued by the game and I think I will be able to make it if Im given a little time. But patience is a virtue I dont possess in some areas. And thats where things can get ugly. When people have no patience and money is no object, things get accomplished 100 times quicker. Good music can sell itself...BUT JUST A LITTLE BIT. Im trying to find that thing that will push it over the top. Shortcuts suck, but theyre there. All Im saying is that people can take them even with music that isnt where it needs to be at that level. Were supposed to be living in a merit based system, but things are changing and thats why this payola business hurts me as an artist.
 
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