Passive monitors for mixing?

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tigerflystudio

tigerflystudio

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Hi, I've just bought and 'run-in' a set of Mackie MR5 active studio reference monitors. Trouble is, I'm not happy with the sound. It could well be my (small'ish) room, but their sound is too bassy - a bit muddy, actually - and the mids aren't good either.

I've tried putting baffles (various thicknesses of foam) in the bass reflex ports at the back of the speakers, but that just seems to kill the bass too much.

So I'm thinking of going back to using my old trusty amp and a set of (new) passive speakers. Anyone got any advice on decent passive reference monitors which are good for mixing / mastering (i.e. that don't colour the sound)? My budget is basically about £100 to £150.
 
tigerflystudio said:
Hi, I've just bought and 'run-in' a set of Mackie MR5 active studio reference monitors. Trouble is, I'm not happy with the sound. It could well be my (small'ish) room, but their sound is too bassy - a bit muddy, actually - and the mids aren't good either.

I've tried putting baffles (various thicknesses of foam) in the bass reflex ports at the back of the speakers, but that just seems to kill the bass too much.

So I'm thinking of going back to using my old trusty amp and a set of (new) passive speakers. Anyone got any advice on decent passive reference monitors which are good for mixing / mastering (i.e. that don't colour the sound)? My budget is basically about £100 to £150.
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Move them farther out from the wall. Isolate them from whatever they are sitting on. Don't screw with the ports.

If you have a crappy sounding room, no alternative monitor set up is going to fix that problem.
 
I've been hooked on Yamaha NS-10M's for a long time. If I lost them I'd have to buy a new set 'cause it's one of my basic tools.

If I couldn't afford a pair of them, I don't think I'd buy monitors from companies like Behringer, Mackie and M-Audio, I would just buy several quality home stereo speakers used, and nowadays you can get them free or almost free.

I've got some Acoustic Research AR-7's(paid $200), Infinity($20), Akai($5), Sony ($3) and KLH ($5) speakers that are very useful. To me, there's a lot of value in having home stereo speakers that approximate what most listeners will use. Sony stuff is good.

I built a speaker selector that can A/B between the different pairs.

After all, the Yamaha NS-10M's are used a lot and they aren't flat at all and weren't even designed for recording studios - they're home stereo speakers.
 
I don't think I'd buy monitors from companies like Behringer, Mackie and M-Audio
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I did. Got the Behringer 2030A and it's the best thing I ever did.
There really is no way around good monitors at least to my way of thinking.
Now when I play my recordings on other systems it has more to do with hearing how it sounds on different systems rather than finally getting to hear it on a decent system.
 
cheers guys. I have had 3 sets of 'decent' (mid-priced) active speakers and I have to say, I have been unimpressed with them all. I have a set of passive good Mission bookshelf speakers and a set of Tannoy F1's - both hi-fi speakers - and they both out-perform all the active's I've used (and then sold on eBay) so I'm going back to the passive set-up, I think. Are there any that are better than others for reference / studio use (flat-response)?
 
tigerflystudio said:
I have had 3 sets of 'decent' (mid-priced) active speakers and I have to say, I have been unimpressed with them all.
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Did you actually listen to them before you bought them? That would save you a lot of time and energy and money.

It would also probably cause you to understand that to group loudspeakers into large groups like "home speaker" vs. "studio monitor", "powered vs. passive", or even by brand name is absolutely meaningless. There will be just as many home speakers that you won't like as there are "studio monitors", and that whether the speaker is powered or passive will not matter at this level of discretion. Even discriminating by brand name is frivolous because - "home speaker" or "studio monitor" - no two speaker models within a brand are going to sound the same, and often times will actually vary widely.

Loudspeaker systems are like shoes and bowling balls, what fits for one guy is not necessarily what will will fit another; we all have our own ears and tastes. What I consider flat, what you consider flat, and what a test instrument considers flat are usually going to be three different things altogether, not to mention that there's at best a 50-50 chance that any two people will even agree as to whether truly flat is actually a good thing or not.

You gotta take them for a test drive first. In a showroom is cheapest and easiest, but not always the most ideal way. At home is more clunky and expensive, but it's the most accurate. Hit a showroom - two different ones if you can so you can tell that what you're hearing is the speaker and not the bias of the showroom placement and acoustics and *listen* before you buy.

If you don't have any showrooms around you, then work with a reputable mail order place like a Sweetwater or the like, where you can work with an experienced sales associate who will understand your need to demo at home and who will be willing to hold your credit card number or money while he sends you demo items to test with the ability to return.

But to say I'm not getting Brand X, or that powered or passive is "better", or that speakers sold on the home market are actually any different on the whole than those with the label "monitor" stuck on their box is just chasing ghosts that don't exist.

G.
 
tigerflystudio said:
It could well be my (small'ish) room, but their sound is too bassy - a bit muddy, actually - and the mids aren't good either.

I've tried putting baffles (various thicknesses of foam) in the bass reflex ports
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Before you start blaming speakers, you might want to address your room issues.....and stop using foam. Taking care of those factors is way more important than any speaker you might buy.

Read up on bass trapping and general room treatment. I can't believe how little attention is generally paid to these 2 extremely important aspects of recording/monitoring.
 
Hi guys, thanks for your thoughts. A few things I should have added in my posts earlier (but didn't due to not having much time / keeping the post brief'ish)... My room is small, but not too bad at all, acoustically speaking. I've a couple of bass traps in the corners and a few acoustic foam tiles to prevent flutter, but basically the room is decent and has sounded good with a range of other speakers. I sold my old monitors on eBay because I was thinking these Mackie's were going to be awesome (as reviews suggested). They are suppose to be flat response, but they really aren't. They produce way too much bass, regardless of positioning - the Sound On Sound test review picks up on this also. The mids are also very lacklustre. It could well be my room, but that's not something I am going to (or want to) change, so I'll change the speakers, because I know there are brands / models out there that will 'work' in the room perfectly. Having tested a lot of speakers over the years, I have to say that my passive Mission bookshelf monitors (which I still have tucked away somewhere) sound the best in my studio, so I'll be digging them back out again and coupling them with my trusty (good quality) amp. Basically, I'm thinking of it as reinstating the good ol' (halcyon) days. That said, I know there's always room for improvement, hence why I originally posted on here to see if anyone has any suggestions on other monitors they feel are good and 'true' (either passive or active). Obviously, we all know speaker choice is subjective and depends on your room / set-up, and to some degree the variance our 'listening ears', but it's also true that some speakers just plain suck and aren't worth the hype / money - check out reviews of the Yamaha NS10's for example... there has never been a speaker that has received such hot and cold reviews - some people love them, some people HATE them. It's a personal choice / preference, yes. But it's also useful for us home-studio guys to pass on helpful advice / tips / ideas about kit you rate / don't rate. I have been thinking of maybe trying the Behringer Truth B2030P's or the Alesis Monitor One MKII - anyone used / using these? I know there's no better way of testing a speaker than in your own studio at home, and that's why I buy and then 'test' them in situ. (If they don't work out, I usually either return to the supplier, or sell on).
 
Right, an update, now I have my set-up sorted. I have indeed reinstated my trusty old passive Mission 700 bookshelf speakers and (high-end) amp. The improvement in sound quality over any other set-up I've used in the past few years (including the recent active Mackie MR5's) is quite staggering. The sound is now rich, detailed, lots of (clear) bottom end, sweet mids and a very palatable top-end. So I guess I'm just passing this info on for any future forumer's who have similar queries about which speakers to go for. The most sound advice I can think to pass on is that there are many different speakers out there and trying a few of them out until you find one that suits your ears is the best idea. As a lot of audiophiles and fellow forumers have said, it's perfectly possible to get what your looking for from cheap second-hand speakers, rather than so-called expensive 'professional grade' reference monitors. Of course, the reverse might also be true. But if you're the kind of guy (or gal) who's looking for maximum bang for your buck, then it's a good idea to look for bargains and try out speakers in-situ at your home. The importance of good monitors can not be overstated, so if, like me, you're keen to attain a great studio sound on a budget, a little bit of experimentation is going to be necessary - if you think you've got it right first time then you've either been very lucky, or you've no idea how much better your home-studio sound 'could' be. Hope that's of some help / moral support to you if you're thinking of embarking on a similar quest for improvement?!
 
dintymoore said:
To me, there's a lot of value in having home stereo speakers that approximate what most listeners will use.
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heh - then you need ipod earbuds, or in my case, nothing :D

I rely on the monitors to hear details, including bad EQ, and other speakers to reference the mix (because I don't fully understand my monitors, and probably won't any time soon because I don't work with them all day long, and I don't even have a dedicated mixing room yet) - yes, non-monitor speakers for reference are good when you use several sets if you can. I usually try things out in my wife's minivan, which not only approximates all the places where the music will be heard, it pretty much *is* all the places where the music will be heard - and only when my wife's not in the van :D - that system is really bass heavy, though.
 
A lot of people are saying they listen to / test their mixes in their cars / vans. It's a very good idea because the chances are you listen to music whilst you drive, and you'll have a very good idea (i.e. be use to) how your car stereo 'sounds'. If your mixes don't work in your car, then you'll know it straight away. i was thinking about how my car is a good place to listen to music becyase it's basically quite soundproof (when the doors and windows are shut), plus the windscreen reflects / angles the music towards my head. of course, there's the engine drone which occupies certain frequencies, but the audio seems to ride over that quite well.
 
Finding speakers that you like to listen to is one thing. Finding speakers on which you can mix is yet a step further. The nest question, Tigerfly, is can you translate a mix on your Missions? If so, then you're cooking with gas :).

P.S.

;)


G.
 
what's that symbol signify? Anyways... I think I'll have a fair chance of mixing accurately on them because non of the frequencies are pronounced and the response, although not 100% flat, seems very even and clear. I've mixed on them before with varying degrees of success (but the poor stuff was mainly down to poorly recorded drums). For this latest project (an album, 2 years in the making) I'm just trying to give myself the best possible chances of making a decent end-product using a very low-budget / the kit I already own. Compared to some folks' amazing studio set-ups, mine looks like a Fisher-Price tape recorder. But I prefer lo-fi stuff (both listening to and making myself) (see guys like: Sea Sick Steve etc.) - for me it's all about ingenuity and big ideas, not big bank balances.
 
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