Panning with ntrack, Delta 66. Help...

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gordholio

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Okay, so I decided to post here rather than the ntrack forum because 1) I've been bugging those folks incessantly, and 2) this particular question may not have anything to do with ntrack. So, here goes:

This is a pretty simple question really. Total idiot newbie stuff. I am recording our band by running the mic cables through the inserts of a Mackie mixer, into the 4 inputs of a Delta 66 card, then on to the computer, back out from the computer into the Delta card, then back into the mixer and to my monitoring system (a small amp and a pair of Tannoy Reveals). Everything is working pretty good, but I have one problem. When I try to pan in ntrack, things get a bit bizarre. When I pan to the right, the signal seems to move marginally to the right speaker. When I pan to the left, it AGAIN moves marginally to the right speaker. When I leave panning right in the middle, the sound signal stays in the middle and sounds a bit louder than if I pan to either side.

I'm pretty positive all the cables are correctly connected. I think it has to do with the relationship with the overly complex Delta software control panel and ntrack??? Does anyone have a clue, 'cause I cannot figure this one out, even though I'm sure it's something ridiculously silly.

Thanks!

gordo
 
Further explanation...

Hey AlChuck:

Thanks for taking the time to respond again. :-)

Okay, let me clarify and ammend. When I set ntrack to record "Stereo - 2 Mono Trakcs", I get two separate tracks (obviously). However, one of the tracks contains no sound, so I ignore it completely. When I pan the other track, the following occurs: When I pan to the right, the signal seems to move marginally to the right speaker. When I pan to the left, it AGAIN moves marginally to the right speaker. When I leave it in the middle, the sound signal stays in the middle and sounds a bit louder than if I pan to either side.

Now, when I set ntrack to record "Stereo", I get one track with two channels. However, one of the two channels contains no audio informaiton (it is blank). In this scenario, when I pan to one side, I get all the info from one of the two speakers. When I pan to the other side, I get nothing at all (obviously, because one of the two channels contains no sound).

I know there's a super-simple solution and I should probably have figured it out by myself. For some strqange reason, I have been unable to do so. Could you or anyone please gimme a hand? Thanks!

gordo
 
Weird.

If it was a stereo track it might be the reason, but a mono track? Unless perhaps the pair of tracks are linked in some way? That is, if you pan the one track, is it actually panning both tracks that were recorded

Here's what I was thinking -- if you have a sound source that's already imaged in stereo, what would panning that do? Before panning, the track contains one stream of data that's all left, another that's all right. If you pan this pair full right, say, it seems to me that the stuff in the right side stays at the same level, and the left side gets panned to the middle, basically (the same turn that would take you from center to full right would take soemthing already full left and place it in the center). It's hard to explain, I hope I'm getting across. If you think about it, it's consistent with what you are experiencing.

Hopefully a savvy nTrack user will pipe in here soon and solve your problem...
 
You have two ways to pan.

Keep all tracks as mono and panned center then send them on individual outputs out of your sound card into the mixer. Then pan those tracks on the mixer.

If you want to pan in Ntracks then you need to pan your returns to the mixer hard left and right (on the mixer). If you have 2 outputs then you have one stereo pair. If you have 4 outputs then you have 2 stereo pairs.

The second method will probably work best for you. Did that make sense?
 
Kinda, but that's probably just me.

So, to remove some of the confusion, let's just say I'm recording my guitar. I run a single lead from my guitar into the Mackie mixer (into the insert, plugged halfway in to the first click), then a single lead out of the mixer to my Delta 66 breakout box. Everythign on the mixer is set to default neutral position (of course the inseetts ignores all this stuff anyway when the inserts are used) . It then connects to the computer, where it goes through the recording and then comes back out from the first output of the breakout box and back into the mixer, then on to the amp and speakers.

I don't want or need to pan in the mixer after it's left the computer and sound card, because that has no effect on what I want to do, which is pan the recorded signal to the right or left to suit the mix I'm building. I guess what I need to know is this: How can I take my recorded signal, which by default is centered between my two speakers, and move it slightly (or fully, depending on the song and the instruments) to either side. From all I've read, this is one of the very first steps to a good mix - before EQing and adding effects, it's good to get the spatial part of the song completed.

I have a feeling someone is going to respond with a totally obvious solution. It quite possibly could have something to do with the Delta 66 software control panel. I dunno.

gordo
 
My second scenario was the answer.

If you are sending the signal out on a single mono line than there is no panning possible. If you send that signal out to a 1/2 or L/R buss and have the returns on the Mackie panned hard L/R then you will have stereo and panning will be possible.
 
Thanks Tex, but I over-simplified. I have four cables attached to the four outputs of the Delta sound card, all four going back to my mixer then out to the amp/speakers. Does this alter your answer? If not, what should I do? Everyone talks about panning like the hard part is getting a good mix. For me, the hard part is simply being able to pan to one side or the other and have the sound follow along with the pan.

I think I'm overly confused...

gordo
 
Once again dude. The second solution. Just double it.

Consider your 4 outputs to be 2 stereo pairs. When they come into the mackie you need to have them panned like this-

1- Left
2- Right
3- Left
4- Right

Then in Ntracks you assign a track to outputs 1/2 or 3/4. When you pan them you will now have a stereo track to pan within.
 
Tex, you rule. Thanks for dedicating so much time to de-confusing my simple mind. Question: Is this a common solution?

gordo
 
It's the only solution.

I actually prefer the first method because I do all my mixing on the mixer. I send each track to its own output and pan, EQ, Effects, etc on the actual mixer. The downside to that is you need a lot of ouputs on your sound card. The advantage is better sound IMHO and more flexibility with outboard gear.
 
If you can spare yet another moment, what does your chain look like with your preferred setup? Instrument to ? to ? to ?, etc.?

gordo
 
I have 8 outputs to my mixer. Depending on what I want to do at mixdown I will combine different tracks to either a couple of stereo pairs or their own discreet mono track.

For instance-
Drums to a stereo pair
Rythm guitars to a stereo pair
Lead vocals to a mono track
Bass to a mono track
Lead Guitar to a mono track
Percussion to a mono track

That would use up all my 8 outputs. I leave my stereo pairs alone and maybe add some reverb or compression if needed.

I add effects and pan my mono tracks as needed.

I then take the stereo master output from my mixer and record that back into the DAW. That is my final mixdown file.

I plan on upgrading to at least 16 outs and a 24ch board so that should be more fun.
 
Like the drugs some people purportedly consumed back in the sixties, you have opened my mind.
 
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