panning guitars in mix

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gjb3

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In mixing heavy guitars, I know from using the search function on this bbs that most people recommend 2 basic techniques (with slight variations):

1. record two guitar parts, pan one hard left, one hard right and EQ/add effects a bit differently to distinguish;

2. copy one recorded guitar track, do as above, avoid various phase problems.

The problem I've had with both techniques is that the result is (to my ears) one very thick guitar sound right down the middle of the stereo spectrum. That's OK, but I'm trying to have two distinct guitars (one on each side of the stereo spectrum) playing essentially the same part, keeping the center of the spectrum "open" for vocals. My point of reference is "Rooster" by AIC (been listening to AIC a lot this week after what happened)...I can hear two distinct "guitars" playing the same part.

How can I get that sort of result? I'm not talking about the "sound" of the guitar (though I'd love to get that sound too), I mean two distinct guitars playing the same part?

Anyone?

-J
 
Those guitars play unisonic ( same melody ), intervals, or different melodies ?
 
Well, the guitars do vary throughout the song but to my ears there are places where they are playing the exact same part, although there is an obvious though very slight delay between the two. I've tried to simply delay one gtr versus the other and that helps in getting two distinct "guitars" but doesn't get me where I'd like to be.
-J
 
Well, try technique which i just described in "Kick and Bass" thread.
Use short room reverb on both guitars, but use separate reverbs, one for every guitar.
Point is to have stereo reverb outputs panned left and right, this really separate sounds.
Pan reverb outputs like this;
left guitars reverb L output pan hard left, R output - center
right guitars reverb L output pan center and R output hard right.
 
Just change up the rythm or tone a little if you need them to sound different.
 
The 2 sounds you recorded must be too close in tone and eq. Try a different miked postion for one them or a different cab emulation if your going direct.

Or you could delay one 20m and they will separate. Or process one down a few cents with a pitch shifter--thats what EVH does--he doesn't even double track--thats just 1 guit you hear.
 
"Or you could delay one 20m and they will separate. Or process one down a few cents with a pitch shifter--thats what EVH does--he doesn't even double track--thats just 1 guit you hear."

I tried the delay idea already, sending only the wet signal but at 10ms...I'll try a longer delay this weekend, in combination with the EQ, and see if that does the trick.

Thanks to all and please post with any other ideas...

-J
 
I used to have the same problem, What i do now is i have 1 mic right by the amp, send that to track 1 with less lower frequencies and then set up a mic about 3 feet away and another about 7 feet away with more lower frequencies and send them both to track 2 and pan almost all the way left and right. This for me atleast gets a hearable difference in the sound of the 2 guitars. or you could use a splitter and send the signal to 2 seperate amps.


works for me
 
Thanks

The 20-25ms delay made a big difference, so much that I was able to lessen the differences in the EQ settings which in turn got me back close to the original guitar sound. I may try the pitch shift idea later to see if that is even better.

-J
 
I would try recording 8-10 guitars with dif mic positions and panning them wide with an average volume of -10 in addition to your 2 main guitars. 2 guitars is not going to get you an AIC guitar sound. Use reverbs that have mid and low mid coloration (350-1k) highs should be very subtle around -15dB to -17dB, depending on the reverb. Also AIC's guitars are crunchy and more metal sounding than other seattle bands which means more high mids (above 1k) EQwise.

Anybody know what mics Layne Staley used?.
 
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