Panning drums and doubled/harmonized lead guitar

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Gonny

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I'm getting ready to mix some tracks I recorded with my band (my first serious attempts at mixing full band tracks). The music is raw guitar based hard rock/punk. I know that in the end I'll listen and do what sounds best to me, but have a couple of questions about how you like to pan things and what works for you:

Drums - Wide or narrow spread? Panned from drummer's perspective or audience perspective? I used four mics (kick, snare, and two overheads). Any value in panning the kick slightly off center with the bass guitar slightly off to the other side?

Doubled (and in spots, harmonized) lead guitar lines. My inclination is to pan them maybe at 10 and 2 o'clock - but I'm sure I can be more creative than that in the end. :)

Thanks all.
 
I usually pan drums from the audience perspective... just sounds more correct to me..

As far as panning the kick or snare or bass.. i wouldn't do it. They should be dead center under normal circumstances.

Your panning inclination for the guitars is pretty good, but like you said... in the end, you will pick whatever you feel sounds best.

JazzMang Out.
 
Yeh there are 'standard' ways of doing things with variations. i think if you have a clearly defined genre, which you have, then deviating too much from what people expect can either sound radicaly good, or more likely crap! I mean you COULD put the kickdrum drum over on one side of the mix and snare on the other, but I wouldn't recomend it.

The approach i have is to pan the guitars hard left and right (assuming they are double-tracked) which leaves 'space' in the mix in the centre for the drums and vox. it works, it's not a rule, but why mess with it and risk spoiling the music. If panning in unusual ways worked then more people would be doing it.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I guess I'll just play it safe for starters and see if that gets me to a good place.
 
Being a drummer, I pan the drums from drummers perspective, it doesn't matter. There is no point in panning the kick and snare. These are the backbone of your mix. Imagine having your hips 4 inches to the left of you sholders when you try to pick something up. You would hurt yourself because it is a weak posture. If you keep your back bone straight, you can lift, haul, push anything. Same thing with a mix, it is stronger when the back bone is centered.
10 and 2 is good for panning the harmonies, if it is 3 part, leave 1 in the middle. Experiment with which one is in the middle, there will be one combination that seems more balanced than the others.
 
Thanks Farview. I should have been clearer in my original post. I never considered panning the snare anywhere other than center. I was more wondering about the perspective and width of panning the overheads.

The kick panning question came up because I have read in several places that there is sometimes value in panning the kick and bass guitar opposite from each other and just off center - just to get them out of each other's way, but not enough to really be noticeable. It does seem to make sense that panning either would lead to an off kilter feel, so I'll avoid it unless I have problems with them meshing that I can't fix with some judicious EQ. Yeah, I know...if I have trouble making them mesh I didn't track them right in the first place. ;)

I have so much to learn, but sure am having a blast doing so. :cool:
 
I tend to pan the overheads wide. Unless the mics are very close to the kit, the stereo image won't be that wide. The overly wide stereo drum thing that everyone is trying to avoid happens when you have the toms close mic'd and pan them wide. It doesn't come from panning the overheads.
 
Farview said:
There is no point in panning the kick and snare. These are the backbone of your mix. Imagine having your hips 4 inches to the left of you sholders when you try to pick something up. You would hurt yourself because it is a weak posture. If you keep your back bone straight, you can lift, haul, push anything. Same thing with a mix, it is stronger when the back bone is centered.
Click to expand...

I may have to borrow that analogy! :D
 
Farview said:
I tend to pan the overheads wide. Unless the mics are very close to the kit, the stereo image won't be that wide. The overly wide stereo drum thing that everyone is trying to avoid happens when you have the toms close mic'd and pan them wide. It doesn't come from panning the overheads.
Click to expand...

That helps, thanks. So far I've had the overheads panned wide, but haven't noticed the spread to be very dramatic at all. It is evident, though, as the drums were tracked in a low-ceiling basement so the OHs were pretty close to the kit. Next time I'm thinking the family room - wood floors and a vaulted ceiling. Might need to be tamed a bit, though. Lots of 'verb in there - maybe too much.
 
Gonny said:
That helps, thanks. So far I've had the overheads panned wide, but haven't noticed the spread to be very dramatic at all. It is evident, though, as the drums were tracked in a low-ceiling basement so the OHs were pretty close to the kit. Next time I'm thinking the family room - wood floors and a vaulted ceiling. Might need to be tamed a bit, though. Lots of 'verb in there - maybe too much.
Click to expand...
You would control the verb with mic placement. If you can, get some close mics on the toms. Even if you can only get 2 sm57s and place them between toms. That way, you can get the overheads away from the kit without loosing the toms.
 
Thanks again, Farview. I appreciate it.

In my next attempt to track drums I will most likely submix the three toms close mic'd to 2 tracks going in, and add an ambient LDC room mic as well for a total of 7 drum tracks. I know I should keep it simple to learn, but hey, I'm having fun. Ain't that what it's all about?

How high should I put the overheads if I'm close micing the toms? The room I'll probably try next is about 13X20 with a vaulted ceiling about 10-11 feet high in the center. I'm just wondering if there's an optimal placement between the cymbals and the ceiling.
 
If the ceiling has a peak, you will want to put the drums at the end of the room, not under the peak. Put the overheads about 8 feet in the air.
 
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