Panning affecting volume?

[Dark Imagery]

I'm having a problem with panning and volume and was wondering if anyone has had similar problems and if anyone could help. I have a total of four guitar tracks on my album (2 for each guitar.) Whenever the vocals are going, I pan Gtr.1 L-100 and L-80 and Gtr 2. R-100 and R-80. Whenever the vocals aren't present Gtr.2 acts more as a focal point so I pan Gtr.1 L-100 and R-100, and Gtr.2 L-20 and R-20 to try and center Gtr.2 while spreading out Gtr1. It seems that when I bring Gtr2. more to the center it gets buried by Gtr.1 even though I had them mixed when they were in opposite speakers. What's up with that? It happens in headphones and with monitors. Is this something im just imagining or is it normal and just needs the volume automated with the panning? Thanks!

 

[miroslav]

Check out "Pan Law" on Google....and then see how that is implemented in your DAW, since some DAWs will give you options for setting it to taste.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Every digital DAW has "panning laws" that it follows - i.e. the volume is not consistent at center and on the edges. This is on purpose. Check out Craig Anderton's article on Harmony Central for a good treatise on this.

Additionally, there can also be some difference in bass response when moving an instrument towards the center, because the signal then has the "advantage" of having both woofers and both sides of amplification to work with, which can sometimes affect perceived volume, though the panning laws will often more than offset that.

Bottom line, you can't assume that you can just set a track's level in a mix once and forget it. As you make any change to the mix, whether it's EQ, panning, whatever, there's a good chance that an adjustment in track levels needs to be looked at at least.

G.

 

[Dark Imagery]

Hmm, ok that's interesting. The good news is that my ears were hearing what was happening and triggering alarms and that I wasn't imagining things. It's weird though, that the oppposite of the pan law seems to be happening in my case where the more centered signal seems to get buried by the hard panned signal. I've looked in my ProTools books and there is nothing mentioned about pan law where there is with other DAWs. So, would you suggest mixing all of my songs first without Gtr2 and getting Gtr1 to sit with the drums, bass and vocals? Then add in Gtr2 with having a good reference level to mix against?

 

[gecko zzed]

Without having heard your mix, I would be inclined not to change the panning on your guitars. I note your reason for the panning changes when no vocals are present, but do you actually need to do it?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

the oppposite of the pan law seems to be happening in my case where the more centered signal seems to get buried by the hard panned signal.

My guess is that you have phase cancellation issues that become more pronounced the closer you pan them together. Lay off of the distortion some on at least one of the sides; if you're using it, you're probably using too much.

G.

 

[Elton123]

Yes. In a typical "band" mix moving a track around the stereo field will effect it's perceived volume.

 

[Dark Imagery]

Without having heard your mix, I would be inclined not to change the panning on your guitars. I note your reason for the panning changes when no vocals are present, but do you actually need to do it?

Yes I think in my case it would be necessary. When vocals are present gtr1. and gtr2. mesh together around the same register. Then there are parts where the instruments are the focus and gtr2. gets the melody while gtr1. plays the supporting harmonic content. I really don't like the idea of big tremelo picked guitar chords (black metal album) all the way in one speaker while the tremelo picked lead line is in the other speaker. It just seems uneven especially in the car or in headphones. And, on top of that I think panning movements will add alot of movement to an otherwise static mix. Especially because I plan on automating the movements over a couple seconds rather than extreme changes suddenly.