PA/SR forms

  • Thread starter Thread starter dobro
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http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ56a.pdf

Here's a link to a PDF of Circular 56a. It says two interesting things: first, copyright registration of the recording isn't the same, or a substitute for, copyright registration of the song. Second, it says that Form SR can be used for both simultaneously. (See the section called 'Registration of a Musical Composition and a Sound Recording With a Single Application')

So, if Brad's right, it means the Library of Congress is telling the public that SR covers both, when in fact it doesn't.
 
I think they just want less stuff to mess with. Lately they seem to be very good at cashing my checks but getting the forms back takes about 4 months.

Another note, you can't go backwards with them. A couple of times I had a song recorded that I'd never registered and later attempted to do so and stated the original recording's date was earlier then my attempt at a copyright registration. They didn't like that. So, in those instances I have to rely on the SR forms that were taken out when recorded.
 
dobro said:




So, if Brad's right, it means the Library of Congress is telling the public that SR covers both, when in fact it doesn't.
Click to expand...

No, it means that the SR form covers both if YOU MAKE THE PROPER NOTATION on the form. Form SR does not ask for the same information that the PA does. So, if you want the SR form to cover both, you have to make clear notes to that end. So, in essence, you turn the SR form into something that it was not designed for.

When I say that the SR forms are less credible, it is because these notes are often left off. And I am speaking of indie artists, or DIY'ers, not signed artists. I think most people think they are covered when they are not. And if that is how it is registered, that is how it is - they can't assume that you meant to notate something. The other thing I see on SR forms - and this is not often, but I have seen it - some notes are made, but not in the correct way - so you see that the person put some effort into making the proper notation, but didn't include all of the info. So, I urge people to use the forms as they were intended. Why make the extra trouble for yourself?

I will say it again - if you are putting out a record and you want to register for copyright the correct way - you do PA forms for each song (Or all songs at once) and an SR form for the sound recording - this way, you don't have to worry if you made the proper notation or not. This means an extra $30 for the SR by itself, on top of what you are paying for one or all of the PA registrations. All in all, cheaper than what you would pay a copyright attorney to check over your one SR form and tell you what notation to make, and then suggest you do it the right way in the first place to avoid the hassle.

If there is someone here who has copyrighted an SR and you think you included the proper notation, but are not sure, let me know - I will look it up and tell you what I think.
 
Okay, *now* I understand what you were talking about earlier. But if notation is so important, can you (dobro clears his throat nervously) give us a capsule summary of what's entailed in correct notation?
 
Summary

I came to the homerecording.com bbs straight from the Copyright site, figuring Form SR was the way to go. However, Brad's points bear heeding.

Though it will re-state some information, here is a summary of how you can go about copyrighting an original, unpublished album and its songs.

---

The difference between musical compositions and sound recordings

A musical composition is a song, including music and, if applicable, lyrics. A sound recording is just that - a recording of a musical composition or musical compositions (song/songs).

IMPORTANT - Copyrighting one does not automatically protect both.

The forms

Form PA (Performing Arts)

This form is designed for registration of works of the performing arts, including musical compositions (songs). It can not be used to register sound recordings.

Form SR (Sound Recording)

This form is primarily designed for registration of sound recordings. However, it can be used to register the musical composition(s) on the sound recording as well.

Two ways to copyright an album

Form SR for both song(s) and album - $30 (2/23/2002)

This option is the less expensive way to go, as well as the method listed in the "appropriate form" table in circular 56 and the similar table in circular 56a (see The copyright forms site to view these two documents). You will need to submit one (1) copy of your album with Form SR.

However, this method is tricky, as the Form SR's primary purpose is to protect sound recordings. To protect songs as well, portions of the form have to be filled out a certain way. If not filled out correctly, Form SR will only protect the recording, and the songs will be left unprotected.

Form PA for song(s), Form SR for album - $60 (2/23/2002)

This option is more expensive, but uses each form for its specifically-designed purpose. You will need to submit either (a) one (1) copy of your album or (b) sheet music and written lyrics with Form PA, and one (1) copy of your album with Form SR.

Though not the one listed in the circulars, this method is recommended, since there is much less risk of the songs remaining unprotected due to inaccurately filled out portions of the form.

As a quick note, this two-form approach assumes a single Form PA is used to copyright all of the songs on an album. You can also use one Form PA for each song on the album, but this adds up quickly. As an example, a four-song demo would end up costing $150; $120 for the songs and $30 for the album. Unless there is a specific reason for copyrighting each song individualy, it is much easier and less expensive to use a single Form PA for all songs.

---

Hopefully, the preceding did not leave anything important out or re-state too much information. If I run across anything else important, I'll try to get back here and post it, as I'm still looking into the procedure.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
 
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Thanks HomeRec - that is the ticket.

Now, I still don't think dobro's question has been answered - how to make it so that the SR does cover the compositions as well.

If you are the sole songwriter of ALL lyrics and music, are not only the songwriter, but the copyright claimant as well (either as self owned publisher or just as your name) and anything else that you are claiming - the wording is simple. I have to go D/L a copy of the SR form to be sure about where to put this information. If this is the case, it is not that hard. If the album contains samples or cover songs - you are SOL. If it contains some songs written by you and some songs written by you and a friend, or if you are a madman songwriter and have some songs published by one publisher (or a combo of pubs) and other song(s) with differing publisher(s) - it is still possible to do - but this is where the wording gets really tricky.

So which are we talking about here dobro - are you the sole writer of everything on the album? Do you claim not only the writing, but the publishing (claimant) as well? Lemme know what the scoop is - I am figuring you are the sole writer - but what do I know - maybe you are doing a cover of one of S8-N's songs or something.
 
I'm the writer of all the songs on the album, but not the only performer on the album. But being the territorial bastard that I am, I want to register the copyright for EVERYTHING - songs and recording - to protect as much as possible. I have put *loads* of work and time into this, and I want to maximize the chances of being able to cash in on it at some point, not to mention steer some loot towards people who have helped me, thereby optimizing my chances of getting further help on future projects.

But I don't know what you mean by 'publishing'. How is that different from the writing and recording copyright?
 
if you are not the sole performer, copyright wise, all the musicians have copyright priviledges on form SR......

on form PA, only the songwriter gets credit.....

in a situation where the songwriter is not the sole performer, id suggest using both forms.....its a whole lot easier....

of course this is my opinion only.....
 
More info...

Brad - Thanks. :) And you're right... I didn't try to answer dobro's notation question. That last *ahem* "little" post took about 2 - 2.5 hours to complete, partially because I lost my login to the bbs when I was ready to post. :p However, I find that a good summary helps a great deal when looking up information, so it was time well-spent. :D

Now, I don't work in copyright research for a living, and I may be missing something, but as best I can tell...

dobro - This information is taken from the two tables I mentioned in my other post (see above). The crucial part of the form is the "Nature of Authorship" section (Space 2 on both Form PA and Form SR). According to circular 56a, you must enter "Music and Sound Recording" or "Music, Words, and Sound Recording" in Space 2 of Form SR to claim copyright for both songs and album.

A more detailed table in circular 56 gives detailed scenarios, along with which form to use, and what to put in Space 2, "Nature of Authorship". According to this circular, if the you create the music and perform it, recording the performance, and can claim copyright in both the music and the recording, you would enter "Music and Sound Recording" or "Music, Words, and Sound Recording" in Space 2 of Form SR (same as above).

However, if you can only claim copyright in a song, not the performance, you would submit Form PA with "Music and Words" or "Music" in Space 2, and the performer, who can only claim copyright to the recorded performance, would enter "Sound Recording" in Space 2 of Form SR.

Ideally, if you wanted to claim all rights to everything on the album, you would have had to have each performer/group of performers sign a agreement before recording that indicated the work they did on the album was "for hire", or at least that you will hold the copyright to any of the performances that you record for the album.

If your album is already completed, you might be able to have each performer/group of performers sign an agreement that surrenders their copyrights to their recorded performances to you.

The agreement would essentially be a piece of paper that gives you documented proof of a performer or performers allowing you to claim copyright in their recording(s). As far as written vs. verbal agreements, it may seem awkward to ask for signatures of friends on a recording, but I read a while back (while researching copyrights for something else) that even the most trusting and friendly of verbal arrangements can get ugly when something becomes lucrative. In other words, if you get it on paper, you avoid potential conflict later on.

If you can't obtain permission to claim copyright on all material in the album, then it gets a little tricky. I'm not exactly sure how you would handle it, but it seems that you would have to break up the album, having all copyright claimants register the copyrights for their work.

For example, you write all 4 songs on a demo, and record songs 1,2 and 4 entirely by yourself. However, on song 3, a friend plays a guitar part he/she wrote (you play everything else). Unless your friend surrenders his/her copyrights to you, you could claim copyright for both the musical composition and sound recording of 1, 2 and 4 on a single Form SR, but you would have to file a separate Form SR claiming joint ownership of the copyrights for song 3. If you wrote the guitar part your friend played, you would have to file a Form PA to copyright the musical composition, and a Form SR claiming joint copyright of the sound recording. (now you can see why the previously mentioned agreements are a good idea)

All of this may seem like a hassle, but the basic point to keep in mind is that you are not creating a copyright - the material is copyrighted the minute it is put into tangible form. You are merely claiming documented proof of a copyright, whether for musical compositions (songs) or sound recordings (in this case, albums).

Brad - Feel free to elaborate on anything I may have overlooked, or correct any mistakes I have made (hopefully none... ;) ).

Hope this helps. :)
 
Oh, for fuck's sake, I'll do the whole album myself, then. How very terribly boring for the music. What a shame. If I was any of the people contributing to my album, I'd be rolling my eyes at this point. I am. I can't be bothered with this bullshit.

HomeRec, I not pissed at you, just at the situation.

Gimme an umbrella.
 
HomeRec, that last post is classic....crosses all the T's and dots all the i's.....Thnaks!!!!!
 
WOOO HOOOO!!!!! Somebody bookmark this thread!!!! WOOOO HOOOO!!!!!

The next time the question comes up about this PA/SR form confusion - send 'em right up to HomeRec's last two posts.
 
What HomeRec says gets backed up by this email response I just got from the Library of Congress:

"If you are the sole author of the words and music and the sole
performer, you may use the SR form to register--words, music,
performance.

If you are the author of the words and music and you and others
performed the words and music--use PA to register words and music--use SR to register performance."

Maybe it's not as much of a pain as I thought last night. Maybe the SR allows you to stipulate which songs were performed by which people on the whole album. Maybe you can do it like this:

Tracks 1,3,5,7,9: me
Tracks 2,4,6: me and John
Tracks 8, 10: me and Lee
Tracks 11,12: me and John and Lee

If I find out, I'll let you know.
 
dobro - No problem. It does seem complicated at first. However, as long as you keep in mind that the music and the album are separate copyrightable entities, and keep in mind what each form is used for, it's actually fairly straightforward.

It's similar to contracts that take an entire paragraph to meticulously detail a very basic concept. The underlying concept is simple. The wording is, of necessity, complex.

Best of luck with the album... post links when you've got it all wrapped up! ;)

Gidge - Glad I could help. :)

Brad - Thanks. It's good to know I read the information correctly, as song/album copyrighting is new territory to me as well.

Ah, copyight registration... a process almost diametrically opposed to the material that it protects. :p
 
It's all about me, damn it!

Yeah, dobro, it would work if you listed things that way.

That would hold up in court.

Wouldn't help me with my job if your music ever gets used on television in the US -

The information that anyone can get from LOC will end up looking different than what you put on the form -

For example, when I go look up your album in the LOC database,
It will probably say something like "... dobro and John - 3 selections, dobro and Lee - 2 selections..." etc. That doesn't help me (this is all about me, right? :) )

Like I said, LOC has the proper documentation on file and you are good to go - but my job is harder if your stuff ever gets played on TV in the states. And the reason I get my panties in a bunch about people using SR forms to copyright everything is just because I see it done wrong ALL the time. All that really amounts to is someone missing out on a few nickels of performance royalties - and that only seems to affect the indie artists. That is most likely because the signed artists have the record company doing all of the PA's and the SR for them.

Anyway, copyright away!

Besides, if your stuff ever does get TV use in the US, I can just jump on the ol' BBS and ask you who wrote what.

See, it is all about me and making MY life easier.

;)
 
Okay, I emailed LOC again, and asked them about dividing up an SR copyright track by track, and they said I can't do it:

"For purposes of registration, the album that you mentioned is the sound
recording so that anyone performing on that particular recording is an
author of the performance on that recording. You cannot divide up
performances on a single recording.

I would recommend that you submit a PA application for all the music
and lyrics that you are the sole author/owner of. I would further
suggest that the SR form list everyone who has performed on that
particular recording."

The person who emailed me also suggested contacting them by phone to go into details, so maybe there's a workaround, but on the face of it, the album gets treated as a single entity by the SR registration.
 
Sorry dobro - I misread an earlier post - I thought we were talking writing credits - in those situations, I think you can (or you used to be able to) divide up the tracks. I know I have seen some SR listings this way - whether they stopped allowing that, I don't know.

The performance issues - which you clearly stated, I just goofed because I am used to being mainly concerned with authorship and publishing - are true. I don't recall ever seeing any specific performers indicated on a "various artists" SR.
 
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