PA/SR forms

  • Thread starter Thread starter dobro
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dobro

dobro

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Okay, the PA short form registers the copyright for the songs.

The SR form is for the *recording* itself. But I think the SR form covers not only the recording itself the songs as well. Am I right?
 
SR forms only for any unsigned artist......PA is to easy to copyright infringe on
 
aight....gidge I'm gonna explain it as easily as I can without typing a memo here..............

PA-covers your song and lyrics (music that is on sheet)

however, it does not cover the recorded version (the song actually played))

You agree with me so far I think --- so heres an example


Gidge rights a tremendous musical composition (song)......and copyrights it in form PA.....Good for you - you can now rest easy at night........your protected.....

I am unsigned artist gidge and record label xyz likes my music and wants to sign me as an artist....ok (indie label) they agree to record these works and distribute them but they will own the sound recording portion of the copyright.......( pretty common )


Question 1.....What publishing royalties are you entitled to every time your song is played.

Question 2...... Had you already owned the SR copyright what would the deal then be with the record label?


B4 I answer these questions gidge I want you to bruh.......
 
as for 2-
the only way the SR version of the copyright holds up is if the record company uses the EXACT recording you registered it with....im not much on top of recording contracts but i dont think too many companies are gonna record you and then let you have the sole SR copyright.....you will still get royalties from your PA registration.....
am i way off?
 
By holding an SR to that composition you own the sound recording...true you will record this composition with your label, but it will have to be registered as a VERSION of the original.....therefore you owning the original would mean that the label would have to pay you a percentage of what the new recording earns which is negotiated of course....Does that make sense gidge?


Furthurmore, the whole discussion really wouldn't even come into play unless the label absolutely wanted to use material off your demo or something that was recorded prior to you signing....after you sign you give up that right...you are then in agreement to record exclusively with the label.....


my point of this post is if you were unsigned get an SR registration not a PA
 
Well, considering that a PA is designed only to register the copyright of the song music and lyrics and not the recording, I don't see how it would be easy to infringe it.

But I think the best way to go is to get an SR and then move as many copies of the CD as you can. It seems to me that if you've documented the copyright and a lot of people know about it because they've bought your CD, that's about as much as you can do to protect the songs.
 
Anyway, to return to my original question, despite the views expressed in this thread, I'm still not sure if SR covers not only the recording but the song as well, and here's why.

Circular 56a says this: "Copyright in a sound recording is not the same as, or a substitute for, copyright in the underlying musical composition."

But in the basic information section of Application Form SR, it says: "Form SR...should be used when the copyright claim is limited to the sound recording itself, AND IT MAY ALSO BE USED WHERE THE SAME COPYRIGHT CLAIMANT IS SEEKING SIMULTANEOUS REGISTRATION OF THE UNDERLYING MUSICAL, DRAMATIC OR LITERARY WORK EMBODIED IN THE PHONORECORD."
(my caps)

These contradict each other, right?
 
I don't see where an SR registration for your song is going to get you any leverage on a future recorded version. I could be wrong but since 1978 I've always used form PA.

Why not use the copyright offices search engine and look up some songwriters you know of and see what they do. It's a lot of fun actually.
 
If i do a cover of "Freebird" and put it on my next CD, ill get a SR copyright...guess what, SR gives me NO RIGHTS to the song itself, just the actual recording.....

disclaimer: this is all MY interpretation of what the words on the copyright pages read. i could be wrong........
 
I think you're right. And if so, then that means if I want both the songs and my recorded version of them covered, it'll cost $60 because I'll need both a PA and an SR application.
 
go to this link

http://www.music-law.com/registercopyright.html

www.music-law.com is a great site, and I recommend that anyone with questions go to the homepage and read all of the links. In the link supplied above, read the whole page, but paragraph 5 clearly states that the SR form can be used to register a copyright of both the underlying music and lyrics as well as the sound recording itself. Have fun...
 
SR forms were invented for record companies, plain and simple.

If you want to know the truth, and I speak as someone who does copyright research for my steady income, SR registration is one of the least credible forms of documentation in this field - precisley because people think they are killing all the birds with one basket (Um, something like that) and they aren't. You have to make proper notes - and that is still not what the SR was made for - those addendums were made because of so many people using the wrong form - LOC was like "Well, if you are going to use the wrong form, you might as well use the wrong form correctly" even if it isn't correct. See what I mean?

Sure, if you have written and recorded an album, and you wrote every piece of music on the record, you can make that little note that the SR registration includes words & music, but that is still not what the form was intended for. There should be no confusion: use form PA to register a song, or a group of songs. Do a separate SR form to cover the album itself.

I think gec is getting the rights to master recordings confused with SR copyrights...

Rights to master recordings is something that is negotiated for in a record contract - and unless your shit is of the unstinking kind - just about everybody signs over the rights of master recordings to the label - it is just how it is done (this is why you hear about bands not wanting to release a greatest hits package, and then see it on the shelves anyway - that is the record company making some more green) Don Henley is in court right now fighting the terms of master ownership - making the masters property of the artist after a certain amount of time - whether the artist asks for it or not - blah blah blah...

Anyway, back to copyrights - I wish I could just write an end all statement that would convince y'all to use the PA form - but alas, there will be someone who wants to argue - and all I can say is go ahead and use SR if you want to. But that is not what it is for.

Use PA forms and make my job easier, please.

Brad
 
dobro,

Yep, you can look up just about any song or writer you can think of if it's form PA, even RE's. Something I've noticed in looking work from people I've known and it's that tendancy to believe an artist's management or record company (I've done it too) when they say they'll take care of the copyright. They do, with form SR. I dunno, I really believe you get more protection with form PA.
 
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