PA Amp and Speakers

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Dangermouse

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I'm getting together a PA for live music (quite a few mics and instruments) and I need an amp to power two JBL JRX 500 watt speakers. Firstly, are these speakers any good? They're £600 for a pair (about $1000) and they seem pretty chunky, reliable and worthwhile.

Anyway, as for the amp - can I get away with 2 x 500 watts? Or do I need to be looking bigger than that, like at least 2 x 600? I can't really afford Mackie, QSC, Crown etc, so I can either go Peavey 1500 (2 x 500 watt) for £300 or Peavey 2600 (2 x 900watt) for £380 or this amp by Numark - Numark Dimension 4 (2 x 660 watt @ 4ohm) for just £250. Sounds random but I haven't read a bad thing about it and it's had good reviews. What are Numark like in general? And then, I know they aren't too popular round this neck o'the woods but what about Behringer? Surely they can do alright amps? They're so temptingly cheap....

Would appreciate any info at all on any of the questions. Thanks! Oscar
 
Dangermouse said:
Sorry, that's 500 watts RMS.
Click to expand...

So they can handle much higher peaks, correct?

As long as you DO NOT clip the amp, it really doesn't matter what size it is. The Peavey 2600 puts out about 540W per side @ 8 ohms (which I assume these boxes are). That will probably give you enough juice to get you going good and loud, depending on the speaker's sensitivity.

Know your operating levels, and keep the amp out of clipping, and you will be fine. It will be up to you to decide how the amp performs at the edge of it's performance, which you will be at quite a bit, if your band is loud.

Realize that the amp will be the weak link in this system, and a source of potential speaker damage, if clipped too hard for too long. When the amp runs out of juice, that is all the volume you can get. Don't run the amp into speaker protection mode (limiting)- it is a short term protection, not designed to be on all the time.
 
No! The JBL JRX's nominal impedance is 4 Ohms, not 8. So does that change things? Oscar
 
Yes. Most amplifiers will output more wattage when drawing at a 4 ohm load than an 8 ohm load. It works to your advantage:)
 
Ok, so final decision: for the 500 watt RMS speakers (4ohm), do I go with Peavey PV2600 - 2 x 900watt (4ohm) or Numark Dimension 4 - 2 x 660 watt (4ohm)? Would 900 watts from the amp be too much for 500 watt speakers? And would I be underpowering them with 660 watt amp? Cheers for all help so far. Oscar
 
The Peavey will be a good choice. Peak power is typically 3-4 times RMS rating. You still have more speaker than amp, so don't clip the amp. I bet you won't as those things will be screaming loud with 900W apiece.
 
IMHO do not buy the Numark, nasty things, the Peavey would be fine but if I had to buy a budget amp for about £250 have a look at the Audiohead AH2400 or the Thomann Tamp 2400 both of them give out 1200watts/side into 4 ohms which would give you plenty of headroom.

The Audiohead is guaranteed for 5 years in the UK.

Tony
 
Hi,

If you have 500 watts speaker rated at 8 ohm then you need any amp rate about 750 -1000 at 8 ohm. It is a good practice to have 1.5 to 2x more than your speakers. The JBL Jrx is an entry level speaker. They are good speaker but not execellent. I also think JBL speaker go well with crown amp because they are the same parent company (Harman Kardon) The Crown CE4000 is a perfect match for your speakers (along with the DBX PA driverack).

I used QSC amp because it is light. It is two to three time lighter than the crown. A Qsc plx3402 can also do the job.

This is just my personal opionion. There are many other amp and speaker are better than the one that I mention above. Whatever it works for you then you go with it. There is no right or wrong.

Kevin
 
Hi Kevin, thanks for all the advice. What does an 'entry level speaker' mean and how does it differ from other speakers? You said the JBLs were good but not excellent - would you recommend the Peavey UL12 or UL15 (both 500 watts, 4 ohms) over the JBLs? Thanks, Oscar
 
Hi Oscar,

Entry level speaker means that it is not the top of the line. JBl offers different model starting as Jrx, Mpro, SRX and so on. Jrx is the lowest model. They sound good in the price range. For under $1000 per speaker....here are some the speakers that I prefer:

1. EAW Fr-159z or Fr-153z (very flat reponse...jit doesn't change the color of the sound...ust like the studio monitor)
2. Turbosound Txd series (excelent choice for small to medium venue. You can run passive full range mode with the sub + main with one amp. It is a plus because the sub has build in crossover.)
3. Mackie SA power speaker (they use the same woofer as the EAW...Rcf)
4. Electro voice eleminator series (cheap, very good sound but heavy box. Also You can run passive full range mode with the sub + main with one amp. It is a plus because the sub has build in crossover.)
5. Jbl Srx series (box offer Bi-amp and full range mode)

I hope it help. this is just my personal preference.

kevin :o
 
The Mackies do not use the same drivers as most of the EAW's, just the same brand.

The JBL JRX series is certainly JBL's entry level speaker. This means it won't be built quite as sturdy, the drivers won't sound as smooth, and the drivers won't be as efficient. This is not to say they are bad, but those are just the differences between their lines. When you get up to the Vertec line you get a 3 way cab, MUCH more focused pattern, smoother integration between the drivers, smoother sound and more of it. Of course you could buy a whole small systems worth of JRX stuff for les sthan the cost of one Vertec top.
 
Thanks Kevin and xstatic for all advice. Still more quesitons tho! Do you guys know anything about Carlsbro speakers? Their Gamma or Beta series, for example? And I still haven't heard anything about Peavey UL series. Would these be better than JBL JRXs? And do you think it would be worth getting Mackie C speakers (300 watts) over the JRXs (500 watts)? It's not like the venues I'm playing are THAT big anyway - quite large halls (as in school halls/town halls...not Albert Halls;)) Oscar
 
As you are looking for an amp as well how about the Mackie SA1521 active speaker, compact with loads of grunt, add some subs later if you need them.
These are way better than the bottom end JBL and Carlsbro crap.

You can get them for £899 pair at Digitalvillage (just phone and tell them thats all you want to pay).

Tony
 
No offense, but I would rather have a Mackie powered 450 then the 1521. I have had to use them several times and they just sounded horrid. Granted I am used to much larger and better stuff (I run a pro audio company), but I still get out and run systems for local bands in bars and stuff. Even with a Midas Venice and a BSS omnidrive I could never get those Mackies to sound right. They have a wierd phasy sounding mid range to them that just no presence and the HF stuff is harsh as hell.

I have never used any Carlsboro stuff, nor have I heard of it. Peavey actually has a few different speakers out now that sound pretty decent. I sent one of my engineers out on the Ernie Ball stage at Warped Tour last year and he had to mix on a Peavey rig. He told me when he got back that he was dreading it but was pleasently surprised when he actually ran it and listened to it. Still not a high end cab, but they have obviously made some improvements in their line-up. Personally, the best affordable speakers are going to be the EV and the JBL's. Plus, they will be much easier to get reconed and stuff if you ever need since they are the two most commonly carried speaker lines in the Pro Audio industry. JBL however tends to be a little more expensive for drivers, and most JBL cabs have a bad "honk" at about the 1.4 k region.
 
xstatic said:
No offense, but I would rather have a Mackie powered 450 then the 1521. I have had to use them several times and they just sounded horrid. Granted I am used to much larger and better stuff (I run a pro audio company), but I still get out and run systems for local bands in bars and stuff. Even with a Midas Venice and a BSS omnidrive I could never get those Mackies to sound right. They have a wierd phasy sounding mid range to them that just no presence and the HF stuff is harsh as hell.
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It just shows how people hear things differently. Most of the P.A. guys that I know all dislike the 450's even though they have become an industry standard for corporate events etc. but reckon that the 1521's are quite a step up and in no way can they be descibed as horrid ??

The top end on all the current Mackie range has a reputation for being harsh, whilst I agree it is very bright they are no worst than the comp. drivers used on most boxes in this price range.

I have never noticed the phasey midrange (to my ears it sounds quite open) but now you have mentioned it I will see if I can spot it.

Tony

p.s Carlsbro are a British company that make bog standard reflex boxes with poor X-Overs and cheap and nasty Eminence drivers.
 
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In reality I would hate to have to use 450's as well. I am fortunate that the company I run has some really nice equipment so I am spoiled in that aspect. For various reasons we do actually have a pair fo 1521's in our stock. I had to use them a couple of times recently and I just could not stand it. But, that is just my opinion.
 
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