Overdubbing Vs. Double Tracking Vs. Layering: Help!!

[Mike Freze]

I am confused about a few terms (or practices) concerning overdubbing, double tracking, and multi-tracking.

1. When you overdub on one recorded track, my understanding is that you play back that track and at the same time you also have record going so you can add (overdub) other sounds on to that one track. Then when you play back, it's all together there on one track. If this is true, you can't later edit what you dubbed.



2. You can also overdub if you recorded a track, then did your add ons to a different track while playing back the original track to hear what was first recorded. This way, your "dubs" are on a separate track. When both play back together, they sound the same as if you had overdubbed just on one track only.

Am I understanding this correctly? If you can edit the dubbing by doing this on separate tracks, then why ever overdub to one track at all? The only reason I can see is that maybe there would be too many separate tracks in your project if you separated everything into all these tracks every time you want to overdub that it would be too much to look at when mixing all at once.

3. Double or triple tracking. How is this different than overdubbing? Let's say you record a source vocal track. Then you record another vocal track of the similar performance to blend with the first track to give a warmer, richer sound. OK. But why wouldn't you just overdub (re-record the same vocal performance) over the original track to get the same effect? You would have to bounce double or triple tracks together anyway when you mixdown.

4. Is multi-tracking the same thing as double or triple tracking in a recording software program? What about LAYERING: is that overdubbing on one track or separate tracking (like double tracking) to get the sound you want?

Mike

 

[ocnor]

 

[itaughttremonti]

Edited. Just cause.

 

[Mike Freze]

Hey, guys, sorry if you didn't like my questions. I am new to all of this and I thought they were legitimate questions. The caption at the beginning of the "Newbie" section says that no one will make fun of you, don't be afraid to ask, etc. So why the Troll Spray cutdown? You were a newbie once too, right?

I still think I have good questions here. There are differences between overdubbing, double tracking, and layering (or at least I think there are or people wouldn't use separate terms for these things). I have several lengthy books on all of this but none of them explain the differences very well. Just wanted some advice. Sorry if I offended your intelligence. I am only trying to learn.

Mike

 

[diggy_dude]

I'm not sure what the troll spray post was about either, but it may have something to do with this comment:

1. When you overdub on one recorded track, my understanding is that you play back that track and at the same time you also have record going so you can add (overdub) other sounds on to that one track. Then when you play back, it's all together there on one track. If this is true, you can't later edit what you dubbed.

You cannot play back a track and record additional sounds on the same track at the same time. If you record on a track, it erases whatever was previously there.

 

[itaughttremonti]

I'll bite. Again.

Anyways, we'll look at it like we're looking at a musical scale. Let's use C.

C D E F G A B C

Ok, now say that is your desired track. But, you goofed up on your track and played it like this.

C D E F# G A B C

Well, we don't want that F# in there, but we feel like the rest of the track was spot on, so we overdub in that one spot.

C D E F# G A B C
------(F) --------

You overdubbed the F, where the F# was. Now, as far as how to do it, that is different from one sequencer to the next, but I'm sure google could help you there.

Ok, now we're on to doubling. This one is pretty simple.

Track 1) C D E F G A B C
Track 2) C D E F G A B C

The key here is that it is two seperate takes of the same thing. Meaning, you play a riff or progression all the way through, and then make a new track, and play the exact same thing again. The key here is two takes of the same thing. The little nuances and imperfections of being a human will give the sound a bit of 'hugeness' or 'presence' here when done correctly.

And finally, I don't quite understand what you meant by layering. But to me, it means the same thing as doubling your tracks. Maybe someone else has a better or more correct interpretation, but this is what I think of.

 

[Mike Freze]

Thanks, Diggy Dude! That in itself helped a lot. So overdubbing then obviously involves dubbing (recording)additional sounds on a separate track while you just listen to the original track to play along with and then combine the two together. I hope I got that right

Mike

 

[diggy_dude]

Thanks, Diggy Dude! That in itself helped a lot. So overdubbing then obviously involves dubbing (recording)additional sounds on a separate track while you just listen to the original track to play along with and then combine the two together. I hope I got that right

Mike

As itaughttremonti said, overdubbing is just punching in to replace a section of a track and then punching out. You record over the bit of a track that you don't like while leaving the rest of the track as it was.

 

[Mike Freze]

Hey itaughttremonti:

Fantastic! Now I get it (crazy at that sounds). Perfectly explained. Sounds like overdubbing and "punching in" when you edit are very similar if not the same.

I just heard the word "layering" tracks in one of the thread responses. I think it must mean double tracking like you said.

You are so kind. Thanks!! Mike

 

[itaughttremonti]

Yeh, punch-ins...overdubs...same thing in my book.

 

[Mike Freze]

Thanks, Diggy Dude!! Hey, is it difficult to "punch in" (overdub) a part on one track if, say, the notes you are replacing are played real fast (like a lead guitar lick)? Is it hard to not accidentally delete a note or two before or after the one note you want to replace? seems like it would be. Can't imagine how they would do it with analog tape recording (even considering splicing options).

Mike

 

[ido1957]

In Sonar you can record on a previously recorded track and end up with both parts on same track.

 

[moresound]

Thanks, Diggy Dude!! Hey, is it difficult to "punch in" (overdub) a part on one track if, say, the notes you are replacing are played real fast (like a lead guitar lick)? Is it hard to not accidentally delete a note or two before or after the one note you want to replace? seems like it would be. Can't imagine how they would do it with analog tape recording (even considering splicing options).

Mike

It's still possible you just need to zoom in and then you can do super surgical punch ins.

 

[moresound]

OUCH! Watch where your spraying that oconor you got me right in the eye!

 

[Armistice]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Ocnor again"... +1

 

[moresound]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Ocnor again"... +1

Did he get you too! Got me right in the eye!
OUCH

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Here's the deal:

Punching in: Re-recording one spot in a track that's already recorded.

Overdubbing: Recording a new track to add to what you've already recorded.

Double-tracking: Overdubbing a second performance of an instrument you've already recorded.

Layering: Same as overdubbing (but not a very precise term).

Comping: Compositing, combining the best parts of multiple takes of an instrument into one superior track.

 

[mcmetal]

I am confused about a few terms (or practices) concerning overdubbing, double tracking, and multi-tracking.






3. Double or triple tracking. How is this different than overdubbing? Let's say you record a source vocal track. Then you record another vocal track of the similar performance to blend with the first track to give a warmer, richer sound. OK. But why wouldn't you just overdub (re-record the same vocal performance) over the original track to get the same effect? You would have to bounce double or triple tracks together anyway when you mixdown.

4. Is multi-tracking the same thing as double or triple tracking in a recording software program? What about LAYERING: is that overdubbing on one track or separate tracking (like double tracking) to get the sound you want?

Mike

When you double track or have multiple tracks of a performance it's a common practice to spread the tracks across the stereo spectrum.This keeps the different instruments from stepping on each other in the mix.

Take electric guitars for instance,By double tracking you normally pan one track left and the other track right.How much is up to you.This helps to get that huge guitar sound.With bass guitar panned in the center it's somewhat seperated from the guitars and helps it stand out more from the guitars.

Same with vocals.You could put your main vocals dead center and pan backup vocals slighty left and right to taste.By adding different types of reverbs to different tracks you can add space and depth to your mix.If all the tracks were panned dead center everything would be competing for the same space.Vocals normally need to be out front more in the mix so by spreading out the mix everything has it's own space.

Drums are normally spread across the stereo field.Kick and snare are usually in the center and the toms spread out.

When you mix down everything will have it's place and retain the stereo field you set it at.

 

[mixsit]

I would add that multi-tracking' more refers to the method of recording with most instruments or many sources going to their own track, vs one or two mics capturing it, or many mics but premixed down to a stereo recording for example.

 

[grimtraveller]

I am confused about a few terms (or practices) concerning overdubbing, double tracking, and multi-tracking.

Multitrack simply means "more than one track". The olden day machines recorded on one track, I suppose. Then Les Paul found a way to overdub performances to already existing performances. It was called "sound on sound" recording and may account for your confusion about overdubbing ending up on the same track.
Interestingly, when I was looking to switch from analog to digital, one of the crafts I looked at was a Yamaha 8 track that recorded on minidisc and that had this facililty whereby you could record all 8 tracks and then somehow bundle them onto one track. I remember being quite intrigued by this.


Overdubbing is the staple diet of possibly the majority of home recorders and it simply means adding more performances to already existing ones. On separate tracks of course. Punching in is it's first cousin; you might punch in on a different track or it may be on the same track. My recorder {a 12 track Akai DPS12i} enables you to punch in and out of the same track with such smoothness. My Tascam 488 doesn't ! Punching in is usually to fix little flubs here and there.

What I understand by layering is just multiple performances of the particular voices or instrument, loads of them. They may not necesarilly consist of the same performance each time and they may be recorded at different speeds or played in different keys but on playback, you get a thick sound that possibly no pedal or effect could give you. It is cheating par exellence and not just that, it's high class sophisticated cheating ! I don't know if you're familiar with Led Zeppelin but the powerful guitar sounds on their records are a million miles removed from their live guitar sound, which to me was generally thin and weedy. Why ? Layering. Jimmy Page the guitarist sometimes used up to 14 guitars on Zep songs.

Double or triple tracking is a variant of this. You could just cut and paste the one performance and double it. Actually, on some instruments like a clarinet, this sounds pretty neat. But the essential logic behind double/triple tracking is a slight thickening of the sound being recorded. It simply sounds wonderful when you get these tiny variations and slight differences and of course, the volume levels at any one moment will rarely be exactly the same so it adds a weight and depth. It doesn't always work though. Sometimes, double or triple tracking sounds awful.

The action you refer to as 'overdubbing' in your first example is more akin to 'bouncing' or 'ping~ponging'. In the old days it was called reduction mixing. Basically, the band would record on a 2, 3 or 4 track recorder, then combine everything down to one or two tracks, thus leaving 2 or 3 tracks open for more recording. Once the bounce had been done, it couldn't be undone. Engineers in the 60s learned to mix on the go which was why final mixing sessions didn't take as long as they do now. The disadvantage of bouncing was that with each bounce, hiss would increase and definition would be lost. Mick Jagger reckons the Stones 60s stuff sounded fantastic when recorded, but once the bounces happened, it made the songs sonically sound like shit and it used to drive him nuts.
So it wasn't all those upper class chicks and acid !