Otari or Tascam Reel to Reels?

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Heimcomputer

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I orignally was going to get a Tascam 38 8 track and a Revox B77 (15 ips version) but now I'm considering getting the Otari MX5050 8 Track and 2 Track recorders. (I'll be using a Mackie 16 channel mixer as well.)
Which should I go with?
(also how much should I pay for the Otaris, I found both the 8 track and 2 track for sale on Craigslist for $2,500 and that seemed to be a bit much....)
 
The otari is way superior in anyway that you can think of. $500 for the MX5050 8 track in good shape is a fair price. More than that it will have to be is pristine condition. Other options are the Tascam 48, 58, TSR-8. The 38 was the entry level and the design is prone to many failures. Avoid 80-8 at all costs. The TSR8 is a good machine, the newest.
 
There are 3 versions of the 5050-8. The mk1 is silver and comes in two halves, one for the transport and one for the electronics, and it stands up vertically. The mk2 and mk3 are a single unit and sit on their back. If I were looking I'd try and get one of the later ones since they will be newer and I think they can support synchronisation, which the mk1 probably will not.

I still think the TSR-8 would be better if you can find one, it has integrated noise reduction which works really well.

EDIT: But the 5050-2 is likely to win over the B77 which is a prosumer machine
 
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I can't help you on prices but Otari made excellent (and fully professional) tape machines--they competed head on with Revox etc. while Tascam were more in the pro-sumer market.
 
I am surely in the "prosumer" league here, so take my comments in that spirit. I have a Tascam 38, and like it a lot. I also have an Otari MX5050BII-2 as a mixdown deck. I like the features (switchable operating level and eq, front panel bias adjust etc. ) On paper, it's a great machine, nothing compares to it for shear flexibility.

In practice, the reel hubs are crap, they don't lock down very well, and I have to lay it on its back, to avoid reels wobbling themselves loose. The tape path has no tolerance. 1/4" is what 6.35mm? I think the guides are exactly that, any slight tape width variation (which is like saying any chance of rain in London or Seattle) and I have oxide all over the place. Don't get me wrong, I'm keeping the Otari, I like the Otari, but I hate it too.

The 38 may be "entry level" (not sure why that is) but it *sounds* great, has three heads, and analog VU's on the front panel. Yeah, I did need to get the dbx units separate. But I can't think of any other feature I'd really need, the MSR-16 will record at 7.5ips. I can't imagine doing so. Either machine has its strengths and weaknesses. The *flexibility* of the Otari is awesome, three tape levels, two EQ settings, bias adjust, two track playback/record, and four track playback. Three speeds. OTOH, the brutal simplicity of the 38. No complicated permutations, one speed, record, sync, playback.
Consider the features you need vs the nice to have, I'd advise get the best deal on the machines in the best shape, and don't worry so much about brand. BTW, $2500 does seem way way high, unless we're talking new heads and a recap.
 
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Blue Jinn said:
I am surely in the "prosumer" league here, so take my comments in that spirit. I have a Tascam 38, and like it a lot. I also have an Otari MX5050BII-2 as a mixdown deck. I like the features (switchable operating level and eq, front panel bias adjust etc. ) On paper, it's a great machine, nothing compares to it for shear flexibility.

In practice, the reel hubs are crap, they don't lock down very well, and I have to lay it on its back, to avoid reels wobbling themselves loose. The tape path has no tolerance. 1/4" is what 6.35mm? I think the guides are exactly that, any slight tape width variation (which is like saying any chance of rain in London or Seattle) and I have oxide all over the place. Don't get me wrong, I'm keeping the Otari, I like the Otari, but I hate it too.

The 38 may be "entry level" (not sure why that is) but it *sounds* great, has three heads, and analog VU's on the front panel. Yeah, I did need to get the dbx units separate. But I can't think of any other feature I'd really need, the MSR-16 will record at 7.5ips. I can't imagine doing so. Either machine has its strengths and weaknesses. The *flexibility* of the Otari is awesome, three tape levels, two EQ settings, bias adjust, two track playback/record, and four track playback. Three speeds. OTOH, the brutal simplicity of the 38. No complicated permutations, one speed, record, sync, playback.
Consider the features you need vs the nice to have, I'd advise get the best deal on the machines in the best shape, and don't worry so much about brand. BTW, $2500 does seem way way high, unless we're talking new heads and a recap.
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Agree, those reel clampers have some wobble, but that is easy to fix, and they will last forever. IN the tascams the nab hub adapters are cheap and will break with time. The 38 is simple and a 3 head design, better sounding than the MSR16 which has a too narrow track. If the 38 is in pristine conditio go for it. NO way for $2500, even with new heads. Each of these heads are $345 from Tascam today, they still have them. Going with the machine that is in best shape is good advice any of those three will do. The 48 in my opinion is the best 8 track of the tascams.
 
Blue Jinn said:
In practice, the reel hubs are crap, they don't lock down very well, and I have to lay it on its back, to avoid reels wobbling themselves loose.
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Not sure that is universal. I'm actually using Otari hubs on both my Otari MK III 8-track and my 3M M-23. As I recall, Mitch Easter gave me the reel tables and hubs from his spare M-23 and so he was using the Otari hubs on that machine, too. I actually made that swap to fix issues with wobble. I can't recall any trouble from those hubs on either machine. The Otari 2-track came with what look like VIF hubs and they work fine, too.

Cheers,

Otto
 
Heimcomputer said:
(also how much should I pay for the Otaris, I found both the 8 track and 2 track for sale on Craigslist for $2,500 and that seemed to be a bit much....)
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$2,500 is out-of-sight overpriced. MK III Otari 8-tracks go for between $400 to $800, depending on condition (head wear) and whether a remote or stand are included and the motivation of buyer and seller. A working 2-track typically goes for between $300 and $500.

Cheers,

Otto
 
Both my Otaris have the smooth spindles, and the spider hubs. They don't stay locked tight on the spindle, so I use hte Otari laying on its back. I have the other kind of spring loaded Otari hubs as well that I use for 7" disks. Those seem to stay locked better. I also have a lot of wobble on the take up side, I haven't been able to determine if that is reel warpage, spindle, or hub.
 
on mine the hubs are fine, but when you rotate them to lock the reels down, they dont fully reach to press the reel enough. So i put small pieces of foam on the tips and that locks them down. Before that they will wobble a little during fast winding
 
I wouldn’t worry too much about so-called semi-pro vs pro terminology because it doesn’t mean what many people think it means anyway.

What pro does not mean in this case is better sound quality. There’s little difference between 8-track on ½” tape decks, with the better Tascams having a slight edge since Tascam invented the ½-inch 8-track format and also designed and built their own heads. Tascam also worked with engineers at dbx to improve dbx performance on their machines, starting with the 238 cassette multitrack. They used those same modifications with TSR-8.

What pro vs semi-pro does mean first of all is -10 dBV line level vs +4 dBm and easier access to electronics for calibration, which is done a lot more often in a commercial environment than a home or project studio environment. If your studio is built around balanced +4 line level you’re better off with one of the Otari’s or one of the pricier Tascams with XLR ins/outs. If your mixer and outboard gear is semi-pro line level (-10 dBV) you’re better off with one of the Tascam’s with RCA ins/outs. Some decks have both.

You can’t go wrong with the later model Otari MX5050/8’s or the better Tascam’s like the TSR-8 or 48. The 38 is a good machine as well although it is the least expensive and the most basic of the ½-inch 8-tracks... not quite as robust as the TSR-8 or 48. But as long as you’re not using it in a busy commercial studio for hours everyday it will do just fine.

The Tascam TSR-8 is my fav for many reasons. As JP mentioned the integration of the onboard dbx is outstanding and even if you don’t care for dbx noise reduction you may change your mind after hearing the TSR-8 in action. The TSR-8 also has the best tape handling of any of the ½-inch 8-tracks. It’s on par with performance of very expensive closed-loop transports even though it’s a standard single capstan design.

The secret is in the fine microprocessor controlled transport in the TSR and MSR series. The tape tension never rises above a certain level no matter what you’re doing. It can go right form FFW to Play or RW as smooth and gently as can be. You’ll never see a tape stretch or break on a TSR-8 unless its badly out of calibration. And that machine was way under priced when it came out. I still don’t know how they managed such a nice machine at such a low street price.

They did cut some cost by making it a two-head machine, but that’s really the only thing I would change and in practice it’s not a big deal when tracking. The other feature I wish the TSR-8 had is a spooling mode for faster yet smooth winding at the end of a session. The MSR-16 and 24 both have a spooling feature and I’m currently studying the schematics to add the feature to my TSR-8. When I was looking at buying an 8-track for my home studio years ago my second choice was the Otari MX5050/8 and it was almost down to tossing a coin because they are both great machines.
 
I have the Otari MkIII Tascam 38-8 and Teac 80-8 my favorite is the Teac 80-8. I am from NY so usually I send the machines to get properly set up in Teac/Tascam New Jersey. I don't know where you at but that's the probably the best thing you can do. I love my Teac 80-8 a fat sounding and very strong machine. I am selling my Tascam 38-8 along with Tascam M-30 mixer both for $350 the mixer is in top shape and the Tascam 38-8 needs a belt and pinch roller: imho you also need to take any machine to a good tech. You can buy a pinch roller for $45 dollars and the belt for about $12 bucks or so. If you are interested let me know and good luck!!
 
I have 2 TSR-8s and a midiizer, also an MS16. I love the TSR-8 is very nice machine, very nice transport as Beck mentioned above. The machine design is not as robust as the 48 (weights half) but the transport is great and it is very modern, with serial port and microprcessor controlled transport.

Beck, i'm interested in that spooling mode too, it'll be cool to work on that mod, need to understand how to bypass or modify the firmware on the MCU to make it work
 
fgonza2 said:
I have 2 TSR-8s and a midiizer, also an MS16. I love the TSR-8 is very nice machine, very nice transport as Beck mentioned above. The machine design is not as robust as the 48 (weights half) but the transport is great and it is very modern, with serial port and microprcessor controlled transport.

Beck, i'm interested in that spooling mode too, it'll be cool to work on that mod, need to understand how to bypass or modify the firmware on the MCU to make it work
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There is R107 that goes to a SPOOL signal on the MCU. Is the control board on the TSR8 the same as on the MSR16 ? does anyone has schematics for the MSR16 ?
 
Had both machines. While they both sounded great the Otari is just a better built machine and easier to service and find parts for, especially if you're anywhere near Chicago where there is a great Otari repair guy. I have two MX 70s (16 and 8 track) and love them.

That said, as with any vintage analog gear purchase you need to look at the specific machine. A lightly used Tascam would be better than a beat Otari or any other brand. Don't forget that you will need tape which is not easy to come by.

$2,500 is WAY too much.
 
I use a Tascam Otari set up in my studio. Tascam ATR-80 (24 track) and an Otari MTR-12 for mastering. The MTRs are light years ahead of the MX stuff, and can be found for similar prices or better if you search. 2500 is too much. I got the Tascam NOS last year (never run) for 2K. It came with a box full of "spare stuff" in which there was a brand new headstack for a Studer two track. I promptly sold that for 2300 bucks. Then found a "parts" mtr-12 for less than three hundred bucks. It cost exactly 3 dollars at the surplus store to replace one filter cap and a blown bridge. So by careful searching and some luck I have two great machines, and cash in my pocket for going to the trouble of hauling them home! You can do it too if you have the drive. Good luck!
 
fgonza2 said:
The otari is way superior in anyway that you can think of. $500 for the MX5050 8 track in good shape is a fair price. More than that it will have to be is pristine condition. Other options are the Tascam 48, 58, TSR-8. The 38 was the entry level and the design is prone to many failures. Avoid 80-8 at all costs. The TSR8 is a good machine, the newest.
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First, I would like to say hello! First post and although I have read many of your threads already, I only registered today.

Second, I agree Otari are better than Tascam. I only recently purchased an MTR-90 and it is in a different league all round - obviously more pro than my other gear. I will say though I disagree on the idea about staying away from the 80-8. I have one with a DBX unit I stole from my dad (not literally). It has been faultless and has only needed calibration and the occasional service over the years. It has a sound and I think the sound is great. Paired with a good console and outboard, you can get professional results.

:thumbs up:

(Silly me for picking such an old post)
 
If you already have an 80-8 in good shape it's good. But for someone that is buying an 8 track, all the other tascam options are superior in design and performance, I wasn't clear on what I meant
 
"Avoid 80-8 at all costs." Why? Though not very sophisticated, it had the most reliable transport of anything Tascam made later on. It also had the only re-buildable motors. When the motors go on the newer stuff, you are dead in the water. Replacement motors are long gone and have been since the mid-90's.
 
To me, the 80-8 is way more of a 'classic'-type deck than the stuff that came later. More Ampex-influenced (i.e. industrial strength). Sounds much better than the later ones too in my experience.
 
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