ORTF or XY for a bgi orchestra + piano ?

[gerardochile]

Dear All,
I will have to record a big orchestra ( 80 musicians ) with a center piano. Because of production issues ( this is with public so I am not allowed to put more cables and mics ) I can only place one record point. My best idea so far is to put an ORTF or XY setup hanging on the balcony of the theatre ( over the 10th row ) pointing to the center of the whole orchestra. Point is that the piano is in the center and I am concerned about getting the orchestra stereo but loosing some piano center sound. May I use a "modified angle" for some of this technics to get an average from the center piano and the stereo orchestra? If that case, how to calculate that angle? Is there any formula which I still cannot find? Do you think on a better position for the mics?
Thanks in advance, regards from Chile.
Gerardo Ruiz.

 

[ecc83]

Hi Gerado, NOT(!) that I have any experience of such a project, I have a few ideas..

How many tracks can you record? You could you see have a cluster of mic setups if you have enough tracks.
An MS setup would I think give you post tracking flexibility. Can you sneak in a rear facing pair of co-is at the rear of the hall?

And to take NOTHING from the guys here, you might like to ask as well over at Sound On Sound | The World's Premier Music Recording Technology Magazine


Dave.

 

[Bob Ross]

Given both your explicit restrictions (a single hang point over the 10th row) and, if you'll forgive my presumptuousness, the implicit restrictions (since you mentioned X/Y and ORTF I'm guessing you only have access to a pair of cardioid mics), I would choose X/Y.

10th row is potentially too close to provide a solid center (both in terms of image and timbre) with ORTF...and yet, depending on the hall it may be too far back to provide a stable balance of direct versus ambient sound using that same array. X/Y will ameliorate both of those issues.

In a perfect world I'd use an M/S pair, or something like the Soundfield SPS or DFS mics, to allow for post-recording alteration of the direct/ambient sound and allow you to modify center fill and "reach" after the fact.

 

[Massive Master]

A pair of omnis, around a foot apart. Natural as you can get and not finicky about everything else.

Ideally, 7" apart with a Jecklin disc in between.

That said - Sure, a M/S pair can be great, XY isn't going to suck (but I still prefer the omni pair just hanging free).

Closer than the 10th if you can (assuming you're looking at a FOH cloud of some sort - closer will give you a bit more detail and still allow for the room to stay in there - that's assuming you want some room in there - otherwise, trash all this and go with aimed ORTF cardioids).

 

[Chili]

Do you think on a better position for the mics?

As close to the conductor (maestro) as you can. I have done a few school band projects and always set up an 2.5 meter mic stand right behind the conductor. 10th row is pretty far back.

If you're limitation is one hanging point, I would do XY over the conductor, angled down towards the piano, using a small diaphragm mic like the Shure KSM 141. If at all possible, place two omnis in the wings of the stage and out of site of the audience; one on each side to supplement the XYs.