orchestration

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This is for dragonwork and roel,I would be interestd in an approach for orchestration from a jazz standpoint and it's my thinking it would be less rigid then in a classical context but more so than a pop standpoint.Any help form either of u would be appreciated.Thanx
Andrew ......Peace
 
Well, I'm working on it from a classical point of view. But I didn't get to the 'real' orchestration part. Ordered Alder's 'Orchestration Theory', but I have to wait for the new version, will be out in a few months...

A LOT of theory comes in handy. With my harmony background (I'm following harmony at the local music school...), I can easily harmonize a melody without even KNOWING what it will sound like. But it will sound ok. Not the approach you want however, but it helps to keep your theory and technique ahead of your creativity...

Classical and jazz theory have alot in common. I occasionally follow jazz-piano lessons, or join a workshop, and the classical background makes it ALOT easier. Even the reharmonizations start to look logical. :)

The practice of harmonization will probably be different.

Anyways... There are some very nice books on the subject. 'The Jazz theory book' by mark levine is a must. You can really keep learning from it for years. Get it. And get a good book on jazz orchestration. No idea which one you should get. Haven't looked into that subject yet.
 
Thanx to both of you for the responses,it helped a great deal.I took music theory in school but it was a while ago so i really need a good refresher.The book is also something i will definitely look into.Thanx again
Peace Andrew
 
Just do it, to hell with the books, you'll be reading books
till your dead. It seems to me the chord progressions in jazz are, on the whole, more difficult than traditional classical or rock, so your job will be that much more difficult. How are you planning on going about this, doing it yourself on keys, or writing for the instruments? If you are going to do it on keys, just go for it, what ya got to lose, some hours, it will be less time than you will spend reading any book. If you are writing for other instruments then of course you will need to know the parts and have them scored before having them played. Work with the theme and keep the faith.
 
Well, dragonworks is right too... Theory is nice, but you need alot of theory before you can start. Just go for it, buy the books anyway, and read them when you don't have inspiration...

Jazz progressions aren't always that more difficult... After romanticism, with impressionism and expressionism, there was alot more freedom. Composing in modes, to even atonal. But it's very advanced music theory.

Jazz also has it's harmony, but the nice thing there is, they start with easy progressions, and just keep reharmonizing them untill they got something *evil*... :confused: But mostly, if you know it, you can still play over the easy progression. :) The book by levine is a good one on this. More than half a book about reharmonizing. Just think what you can do with your orchestration, if you can have them play different progressions over the same tune, some time...

And please stop kicking the classical theory-focused me... Jazz is music to play, not compose. I cannot play... :(
 
thanx dragonworks and roel,I agree witj both of u mostly just doing it.A little book reading on the other hand can remove some creative blocks by looking at something from a different perspective,which is all about communicating in jazz seeing it from another musicians view.Actually I'm writing for the bass clarinet which isnt a very common one in jazz but its for my son so im probably going to have to do it on that.Hey if nothing else it will be one hell of a challenge.Thanx for the post it was helpful
peace Andrew
 
Wow... bassclarinet. Way cool.

I think Eric Dolphy used it quite alot. I think it's a very cool instrument. Much more a woody sound than a sax. Love it. I believe John Zorn used it too on the Masada Chamber Ensembles... (2 wonderfull discs. The klezmer-thingy scales sound real good...) Think there's even a bass-clarinet solo piece on it. And it's not as far out as Zorn's other projects...

So, if you got the player right next to you, nothing's keeping you from experimenting, right? Now search the web on bass-clarinet harmonics and go annoy your son. :D

And for jazz... Well, jazz is play-music. Get your son to improvise on some basic tunes. That's what jazz really is about. Jazz orchestration is what you need when you want a big band to accompany your son while he's soloing over one of your chord progression after raping the wonderfull soulfull theme you wrote...
 
Thanx for the listening I never even heard of one till my son brought it home but I agree I think it sounds even better than a clarinet problam is he's only 10 and he just started it last month so we both have alot of work ahead lol.But that is half the fun.Thanx again for posting back
Peace Andrew
 
Thanx for the listening tip I never even heard of one till my son brought it home but I agree I think it sounds even better than a clarinet problam is he's only 10 and he just started it last month so we both have alot of work ahead lol.But that is half the fun.Thanx again for posting back
Peace Andrew
 
.Hell im just a hack musician so please dont laugh at my next questions.What the hell is the masada chamber ensembles and what is a klezmer scale.Thanx
Peace Andrew
 
Masada is the Klezmer (Jewish music) - avant-garde - jazz project of John Zorn (Alt sax/producer/...). The Masada Chamber Ensembles is a double CD containing the same style of music, but with more musicians and different instruments. It's not a shame if you don't know it. But it's really worth checkin out. Great music, great musicians...

And Klezmer scale. No idea. I just noticed that Klezmer uses different scales. More oriental-orientated. Lotsof enlarged seconds... (Is this the way you call it in english? For example C D#)

Don't bother your kid just starting out. Get him to start improvising the moment he can get a tone out. You can perfectly improvise on just one note. If he only plays classical pieces, his creativity won't be at the same level later. IMPROVISE!!! NOW! :p
 
here are two typical Klezmer scales.

C,Db,E,F.G.Ab,Bb,C

C,D,E,F#,G,Ab,B,C

The influence is Balkan and gypsy
 
Wow, wow... Way cool. Any idea where I can find more theory on klezmer music? I really love the way it sounds, but don't know where I can find anything about it.

And theorie, I can't play no more, so I need the theory so I can use it in my compositions... Any books? I love books. I buy alot of 'em just to put on my desk. Looks cool, and it's there if I ever want to read it... :D

Meshuggah, I found some klezmer tunes on your mp3 page. You got any idea?

Listening material is also nice. Anything that would remind me of masada chamber ensembles would be extremely appreciated...
 
Roel thanx for the reply,I agree on not giving my son too much to start but I told him I would record him if he wants and he was definitely into it.I've heard some of zorn's stuff before and I like him so I will definitely check the disk out. Shailat thanx for the example of the scale Ill give it a try next time I jam.
Peace Andrew

"Music is the echo Of God's voice"
 
Roel said:
Wow, wow... Way cool. Any idea where I can find more theory on klezmer music? I really love the way it sounds, but don't know where I can find anything about it.

And theorie, I can't play no more, so I need the theory so I can use it in my compositions... Any books? I love books. I buy alot of 'em just to put on my desk. Looks cool, and it's there if I ever want to read it... :D

Listening material is also nice. Anything that would remind me of masada chamber ensembles would be extremely appreciated...
Click to expand...

I might be able to find you a book but I'm not sure you can find it in the states. I'll see what I can come up with.

There is tons of Kelzmer music around but the basic simple athentic kind and not Zorn's sophisticated Jazz style.

Check out http://www.jewishmusic.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/kzhsa10b.htm?L+jmcom+khgv1995+983392893

and : http://www.jewishmusic.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/kzpso02b.htm?L+jmcom+khgv1995+983392893

If you have a specific Theory question you want to ask then I might be able to help.

Zorn is out of this world !
A break your heart Kelzmer is Giora Fiedman. He is a wonderfull artist.
 
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Not being able to find it in the states is not a problem over here in Belgium... :p

I'm gonna check all this first thing tomorrow morning. Keep it coming. Cool!
 
Wow, wow... Way cool. Any idea where I can find more theory on klezmer music? I really love the way it sounds, but don't know where I can find anything about it.

And theorie, I can't play no more, so I need the theory so I can use it in my compositions... Any books? I love books. I buy alot of 'em just to put on my desk. Looks cool, and it's there if I ever want to read it... :D

Meshuggah, I found some klezmer tunes on your mp3 page. You got any idea?

Listening material is also nice. Anything that would remind me of masada chamber ensembles would be extremely appreciated...
 
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