Optimal configuration

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echelons6

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Hello,

I'm new to music production and I have a question about my equipment and latency? Recently I purchased Ableton Live, a Presonus Audio Box USB audio interface, and some monitor speakers/headphones. I've been jamming on different synthesizers through different amplifiers for years, but this is my first attempt at integrating my PC into the mix to record and mix full songs.

Currently, I'm using an 88 key Kurzweil k-250 and a Korg Radias-Rackmount for my music production. Between those 2 units and Ableton I have plenty of sounds. They are hooked up to my Audio Box MIDI in and out, so they can send MIDI to Ableton, and they can receive MIDI for playback on whatever channel. I like this setup because I can program notes into Ableton, and then design and manipulate different patches through the Radias while Ableton plays the notes.

My issue however is when I play to the metronome, or program a simple 4/4 beat, both the audio and MIDI playback will always be off. If I program some MIDI notes, and then try to capture them to audio the timing will be off. If I just try and capture an audio file, the timing will be off. I can move the MIDI notes or audio around to make it in time but that seems like a backwards workflow.

I've downloaded the latestest drivers for the Audio Box (maybe rename it the POS box?) and made sure Ableton was utilizing them. I tuned the driver latency correction to 0ms even, but I didn't notice any change in the latency. I downloaded ASIO4all drivers, since I googled that ASIO setup's have close to 0 latency. With these driver however I had significant clipping below a some 1600 sample buffer. So I couldnt fish a good latency from that either because of the large buffer.

My PC isn't top of the line, 2.6ghz dual core with 4gb of ram (DDR2), but is that the culprit for not getting the ASIO setup to work? What kind of configuration should I have, either harware wise or software wise, to simply be able to record while a beat plays, and have that recording be in time? Both in terms of MIDI and audio clips.
 
My issue however is when I play to the metronome, or program a simple 4/4 beat, both the audio and MIDI playback will always be off. If I program some MIDI notes, and then try to capture them to audio the timing will be off. If I just try and capture an audio file, the timing will be off. I can move the MIDI notes or audio around to make it in time but that seems like a backwards workflow.

Are you having to time shift whole recorded phrases to the left or are you having to manipulate individual notes and waveforms ? If its the latter then you have a bottle neck somewhere and that would most likely be a DPC latency issue. DPC Latency Checker

If its the former then how much out is the audio ? It has to do a full loop from Keys to Midi to PC to Midi to Korg ? Where is the final sound you hear coming from ?
 
If its the former then how much out is the audio ? It has to do a full loop from Keys to Midi to PC to Midi to Korg ? Where is the final sound you hear coming from ?

Thanks for the reply CFox,

It's definitely the former. I'll try to go more in depth regarding my signal paths. The front side of my PreSonus Audio Box has 2 1/4" input's. One of those is taken by the Korg Radias, the other by the Kurzweil k250. Now for the MIDI path, the out on the audio box is sent to a Midi Solutions Merger my buddy gave me. Basically a " Y " MIDI connector, where two inputs, from the Audio Box out and the K250 out, merge to one. The Out from the Merger runs to the IN on the Radias. That way, least my buddy tells me, I don't have to swap back and forth between the K250 and the Audio Box for sending MIDI to the Radias. I dont have them send MIDI simultaneously because I'm ususally doing one thing or the other. Then the Radias is MIDI Thru is connected to the Audio Box IN. End of MIDI loop. I dont have the K250 hooked up to send MIDI itself, only to the Radias via the Merger, because I can push a putton and switch it between sending MIDI and to use as a controller, or swtich to send Audio.

Finally the Monitor's are hooked to the L/R output of the Audio Box. So they produce the sound. Sorry I've got a limited technical knowledge base so if that didn't answer the question I can try again, I'm also antsy to get things to work.

With this setup (possible frankenstein one?) When I capture MIDI notes to a metronome/beat and play them back, it's off or comes in slow. When I capture just audio and play it it back, its off. Is this just how working with a DAW and a MIDI loop works? Or is there no such thing as a "MIDI loop" as I described hah. I can almost understand a delay with the MIDI but the audio should be spot on.

Thanks again.
 
Maybe if this is a common obvious problem someone could dump some trouble shooting resources on me? I'm having trouble knowing where to look, beyond the first 2 pages of google. I found on SoundOnSound.com for Ableton to turn the tack dealy to a negative value to compensate for the lag, but it seems like my issue might be obvious to someone with experience if they had 2 minutes of diagnostics.
 
Farkkk, eyes hurt from reading that...what a mess. Test for individual midi and audio lag by unplugging the merger....arghhh !


Where is the signal from the midi out from the Presonus coming from ? Sorry, a bit tired.
 
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