Opinions on /questions about preamps for A-3340S

[teecam]

Hi everyone. I just joined the forum, and I'm amazed at how antsy I am about posting a question. Never liked raising my hand in class, so maybe that's my issue.

Anyway, what I know: after years of digital recordings in quite a few different studios with several different bands and never hearing anything I was completely happy with, I decided I'm not a fan of recording software anymore. So, I decided to do it myself and bought a TEAC A-3340S, and a TEAC 2A mixer w/MB-20 attached. I've read mixed reviews about these pieces, but at the very least, it seems like a decent starters kit.

What I don't know: anything else. Seriously. Very little recording/technical knowledge. But I'm a pretty quick study.

In an effort to keep as much of my recording as analog as possible, I was looking at tube mic pre's. In order to record as much as possible at once (my band live recording the basic track for instance) on a six channel mixer, I was looking at a Shure M67 mic mixer/preamp to run the drum mics into, then running that one out line to one channel, and then something like a UA 2-610s for an acoustic guitar and bass (or something like that).

So, questions:

Can I even run a line directly from the UA and the shure piece to the 2A Mixer w/out frying something? All kinds of warnings in the manual about not hooking up any powered source to the mixer but, if I understand it properly (and I probably don't) a preamp is just boosting the signal strength or voltage, not wattage, correct?

Does my approach sound at least semi-reasonable? Again, I'm about three or four days into the rabbit hole here, so forgive me if this all sounds incredibly dumb.

Thanks so much for your time!

 

[cjacek]

While you can probably stack two mixers via the 2A's "bus in" jacks, I personally wouldn't try what you're suggesting with the external preamps. I'd like to offer a possible alternative... Have you considered just using the "limitations" of such gear and use what you've got there, go "old school"? Meaning, that if you wish to record your band live all at once then why not try doing it all with just 6 mics or, if you absolutely need to, get another 2A mixer for a total of 12 mic inputs? Or record as much of the band as possible, with the one mixer you've got and overdub the rest. Using less mics, paying attention to mic positioning and figuring out how to do with all those limits, can yield some nice recordings. It has been done before, many a time. I'd try it before you start needlessly buying extras and complicating things. Just a thought.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

For the amount of money you'd have to lay out for just a singlea UA-610, you could buy a TASCAM M-312B mixer with 12 phantom powered balanced mic inputs and have enough left over to buy a couple RNC compressors, direct boxes and a decent reverb and all the needed patch cords.

The Teac M2A mixer is an incredibly basic mixer with only TS unbalanced mic inputs with no aux or effects sends. It's usable if your dealing with a bunch of SM-57 mics and relying on the room's acoustics for ambiance. But beyond that, it's pretty bare bones.

The 3340S though is a great sounding recorder and if its set up right and send healthy record levels, it can yield some amazing results.

Cheers!

 

[cjacek]

I just checked out the price of the UA-610.. +1 to everything that The Ghost of FM said.

 

[lonewhitefly]

If you're using external preamps, you can just plug the outputs of the preamps directly into the tape machine inputs, and just use the mixer to monitor and mix. That mixer is super colorful, so you might want to avoid unneeded extra trips through it. A Teac Model 3 or Model 5 probably go for about the same price, and have more features.

A UA 610 is probably overkill for that setup. The M67 is a fine choice ... and maybe get an ART preamp and/or compressor. Probably some kind of reverb, and you're good to go. Not sure what you're looking for in the UA.

That said, you should not have a problem plugging an M67 or 610 into a line input on the mixer ... that is, if it has line inputs. I always use the headphone output on the M67.

There's nothing any more 'analog' about a tube preamp than a solid state one.

 

[teecam]

Have you considered just using the "limitations" of such gear and use what you've got there, go "old school"? Meaning, that if you wish to record your band live all at once then why not try doing it all with just 6 mics or, if you absolutely need to, get another 2A mixer for a total of 12 mic inputs?

cjacek, you know...thank you. I'm the type that complicates something before a simple solution dawns on me (I've worked harder than I have smarter) so that, coupled with a few buddies who have been preaching "Avalon Pre!" or "UA Pre" forever, just kind of got stuck in my head. I'll take a swing with what I've got (plus a few of the suggestions that lonewhitefly mentioned below).

I think the pre amp thing comes from a lack of understanding of how phantom power works. I just knew that the 2A didn't have it, so I figured I'd need something to boost the signal beforehand.

 

[teecam]

Thank you for the info and the insight, ghost. Certainly appreciated. Along with what the other guys have said, it's certainly helped put my focus where it needs to be. And lonewhitefly, I think the UA fixation/obsession came from watching Neil Young record with a UA 610 console and thinking "That's what I need!" Completely impulsive, and also based on (like I mentioned to cjacek) not understanding phantom power completely, so I figured if I needed something for a board that doesn't have phantom power, I might as well go all-out.

So...yeah. These have been awesome suggestions, guys. Thanks so much!

 

[cjacek]

cjacek, you know...thank you. I'm the type that complicates something before a simple solution dawns on me (I've worked harder than I have smarter) so that, coupled with a few buddies who have been preaching "Avalon Pre!" or "UA Pre" forever, just kind of got stuck in my head. I'll take a swing with what I've got (plus a few of the suggestions that lonewhitefly mentioned below).

I think the pre amp thing comes from a lack of understanding of how phantom power works. I just knew that the 2A didn't have it, so I figured I'd need something to boost the signal beforehand.

I think the UA fixation/obsession came from watching Neil Young record with a UA 610 console and thinking "That's what I need!"

I can certainly understand where you're coming from. The only advice that I can share is to not fall into the trap of thinking and believing that you need some expensive outboard piece of gear, a mic preamp or what have you, to get the sounds that you're looking for. It's all a lie. In all honesty, all you really need is a recorder (you've got a good one), a functional mixer (yours will do, at least for now - its simplicity is sometimes a blessing in disguise) and some dynamic mics (no need for condensers). A compressor is a good thing to have too, can be a very powerful tool (to help control dynamics and kind of "glue" things together) but it's not absolutely critical. Your tape machine can "compress" if the levels are pushed a bit (especially cool effect with lower level tape such as the Quantegy 407, Maxell UD or if you really want to go old school, for a "James Brown" sound, go with some old red oxide tape such as Ampex 600 series - 631, 641 or Scotch 201, 203, 177, 207, 206). An outboard reverb or delay unit is even less critical but sometimes it's a nice thing to have, for added mood or character. You can experiment with those later on but for now I'd urge you to do what you can with what you've got and see where it gets you. If you don't like what you hear, it just means that you need to experiment more with recording technique and controlling your acoustic space and not that you need an Avalon. I hope you get my drift. I know that others may have their own views. This is just my opinion and my 2c....