Open air mixing...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Roel
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Roel

Roel

That SMART guy.
The band I mix with has got the chance to replace a band that cancelled at a festival... The festival is medium size (in between 5000->20000 people, I don't know. Alot.)

So, my question: we ussually play clubs, 50->400 people. I never mixed anything bigger. Are there any major differences? My biggest fear is that it's open air... It's also quit big, so there will be less direct sound from there own instruments and amps.

And I also noticed that they soundcheck with headphones instead of through the speakers? I never heard them soundcheck when I got there over the past years anyway...

It's alot of people, so I'm really stressed about it. Help me out.
 
Like you said the biggest difference will be that the instuments will be heard through the PA instead of as a blend of PA and direct sound.

Don't worry, trust your ears and you'll be ok.

The monitors will probably be mixed from the stage instead of Front of House, so that will be one less headache for you.

The second big difference will be that the snare will probably get miced top and bottom, remember to put the bottom mic out of phase (usually a button with a '0' with a '\' running through it.)
Then get as close to the sound that you want as you can using only the top mic, then add in the bottom with EQ boosts in the areas that the top is missing. You won't always need to use the bottom mic, so don't feel that you have to if it's giving you a hard time.

Once you are not the opening band, the board settings from the guy before you should be in the ballpark (once he isn't a newbie too) but things like the vocal mics and effects should be up and sounding good by the time you get on the board.

There will be an engineer in charge, don't be afraid to ask questions especially about how the board is configured, FX sends, etc. Let him know that this is your first big show and he will probably help you out.

Call the sound company, tell them that you are the engineer for one of the bands and politely ask them what board and effects will be at the Front of House mix position, then try to download manuals from the manufacturers web site to familiarise yourself with it in advance.

If you have your own phones take them, as well as a "Sharpie" (marker) and flashlight.

Don't worry about it, it's just another gig, trust your ears and you will be fine.
 
Thanks for the tips... Good stuff!

vox said:
Don't worry about it, it's just another gig, trust your ears and you will be fine.
Click to expand...
I know. But when doing PA, especially when I come with the band, I feel like I'm doing a concert too. And I feel perfect in front of 400-500 people, don't care at all, but that many is a new thing... It used to be our dream to ever play that festival as a start-off to fame. :)
 
Good advise Vox
I would add that feedback isn't going to be the kind of problem outdoors that it is inside.The outdoors kinds of "swallows" the sound so your normal monitor levels can be safely raised a bit.

Tom
 
Concert Mixing

Hi, There is a wealth of information on live mixing at <http://www.live-audio.com/>

The threads and discussions are pretty heated and to the point compared to around here, but there should be answers to any questions you may have regarding live mixing

MH
 
Be very careful if the mix position is off axis. On axis, you will experience a "coupling" of the sub speakers. Off axis, you will be wanting to add a lot of low end which will kill your mix on axis.

Ideally, the lead sound tech is quite aware of this problem and splayed to sub boxes to fill up the low end in the whole are that people will be listening in. But, I have found that just because the lead sound tech has the job, doesn't mean he has ANY clue about how to properly splay speakers to create a balanced sound in the whole audience area. It is up to YOU to get there early and walk around the place to hear how it sounds different in different areas and compare that to how it sounds at the mix position. In outdoor gigs, mix position almost always sounds very different the even 20' either side of it, and certainly up closer will sound much different too.

Indoor venues in the 400-500 capacity range will usually have a natural RT time of around 1-1.4 seconds. Outdoors, you will have NO RT time at all!!! This can really mess you up if you are not used to it because everything is going to sound very dull and direct. One way around this is to make sure that you don't get your mics too close to things like drums and guitar cabinets. Pull them away an extra couple of inches from where you would normally mic them at and the sound will not be so direct coming out of the mains. Be prepared to hear digital reverb (if you use it) to sound EXACTLY the way it sounds, rather than how it sounds blended with a natural RT time in a room. You might find that you will need to really tweek the eq on the verb to make it sound like an ambiant effect. Try not to over do it though....;)

As far as sound checking through headphones. Well, welcome to the big leagues friend!!! :) Basically, you will probably use half the eq you would use on the any given channel indoors, so, when you are line checking instruments, keep that in mind. Basically, your line check is just to get some preamp levels set and optimized before the band starts playing. If you are good at mixing live, you should have a decent enough mix in about a half a song. Remember that outdoors, any tweek you do on EQ will be far more noticable so take it slow in adjusting things in the first song, unless it is REALLY out of whack sounding....:)

Try not to sweat it too much. Outdoor mixing offer far more control, and you get to enjoy the sun at the same time....:)

Good luck.

Ed
 
sonusman said:

As far as sound checking through headphones. Well, welcome to the big leagues friend!!! :)
Click to expand...
Thanks... :D

Very good stuff... These things are what I was (am) looking for. Waouch. You got me extremelly stressed again. Eq on the reverb?? Damn, never needed to do that live.
(It's actually my job that got me stressed this time. Don't worry. Just keep it coming!)
 
One more question on the headphones... What do I take for this? The ones that sound best, or the ones that close the best? I will mainly use them for the line check, when there is not that much noise...

I've got a Beyerdynamic DT770, very accurate sounding, but they are not that closed... I've been looking for a pair that has better closing for tracking, so if that would be better, I might as well get them now. (I need more headphones anyway.)

So, which one?
 
Roel said:
I've got a Beyerdynamic DT770, very accurate sounding, but they are not that closed...
Click to expand...
What?? Are you talking about isolation of exterior noise while listening to the cans??? If so, the DT770s have EXCELLENT acoustic isolation characteristics - quite a cut above most headphones I've used!

I've used them in remote recording sessions (drums!) with great success.... cut the drum levels right down!

Bruce
 
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It's got good isolation, I know. But there must be cans that do better... I tried doing some submixes on them for recording while mixing at a show, and you really have to push them against your ears to get a good idea of the signal...

But the DT770 sound good. Extremelly accurate. You won't hear me complaining about them. When I bought them , I compared them with every other decent headphone in the store, there's a reason I bought the most expensive ones. The sennheissers I tried (HD25?) had better isolation, if I remember correctly.
 
I hear ya Roel - I wasn't suggesting you were being dissatisfied with them, only pointing out that they are up there already in isolation abilities!

Some interesting options for ya though -->

http://www.sennheiser.com/headphones/noisegard/nh_1d001.htm

http://www.bose.com/noise_reduction/personal/qc_headset/

I've read articles where Roger Nichols swears by the Bose on an airplane - was in Studio SOund a few years back I beleive.

I don't know how these would fare in a live setting - but in theory, it could work! Mind you, you'd be trying to isolate yourself from the very sounds you're trying to hear, so if these cans sample the exterior noise and try to mask it, it might be akin to applying wild EQ notches to your sound -- by the time you hear it in the cans, it would sound like crap! :D

I don't know - if you have some money to throw at some experimentation, it'd be an interesting test! We'd love to hear about it Roel - how about it?? ;)

:)

Bruce
 
nope... No money to throw away... :)
I was looking at the same things, when looking for the sennheiser number. Can't be good for the soundquality... But now you really got me wondering if it would work... First I need more mics, micpre's, even more mics and pres, then a major upgrade from the VS1880 to whatever, ... :D

Gonna take my headphones to the shop, and compare the isolation abilities with other brands. Just to see. Gotta go there anyway...

As for the tracking, the DT770 is indeed good enough. What I should've said is: I need more headphones for tracking, so I might as well get some that isolate even better than mine.
I need the headphones to isolate good because I only do remote recording-sessions, and most musicians don't have good cans themselves.
And I want the DT770 for myself to monitor what's going on... :)
 
For the purposes of this gig just go with the Cans that you know best, even if it does involve some 'ear pressing'.
You are basically just trying to get the instruments somewhere in the ballpark through the phones, you wont be able to get them perfect, it'll take the usual tweaking throughout the first couple songs of the set to get it settled.

Watch the amount of bass that you add while checking with the phones, it's better to go what you think is a little bass light at first and add in more when the band goes live if you need to.

The stage crew should know what they are doing, let them do their jobs setting up mics etc, when they are finished you can go and fine tune if you feel that you need to.

Ask how the talkback is set up, cause you will need it.

There are a whole bunch of things that we could tell you, but if you are feeling a little overwhelmed just keep it simple and you will be fine.

Be VERY polite and friendly to the crew, they can be your best friend or worst enemies and you really do need their cooperation.
 
I feel overwhelmed about the gig, only because of the size... But since it's my first REAL big gig, and also my first open air gig, I thought I might better be prepared... :)

So, the more you guys tell me, the more I will learn from it...
Thanks.
 
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