Omg!! These Things Are Hugeee!!!

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onrdrums

New member
Sorry about the misinforming Subject. Just needed to grab your guys attention. Heres the deal. I need some input on my first recording with my new gear. First of all here is all the gear i am using:

Delta 1010
ART TPS Dual Mic Preamp (Rack Unit)
2 Audio Buddy Dual Mic Preamps

Shure Sm57 (Vocals and Guitar)
Audio Technica PRO25 (Bass Drum)
2 Behringer ECM8000 (Drum Overheads and Guitar)

I recorded the drums with the two overheads and the bass drum mic. The OH's were set up in the two stick length from snair deal, that i got from a post somewhere around here. I recorded Bass Guitar direct input through the ART TPS Mic Preamp. I recorded the Guitars using an SM57 up against the amp's cloth and an ECM8000 about 3 feet away. Vocals were recorded with the SM57 using a pop filter. I panned the OH's for the drums L 50 and R 50 and the Guitars were done the same, the lead L 50 and the Rythmn R 50. The Bass, Bass Drum, and Vocals are right down the middle. I believe thats about all the background info one would need on how i recorded this stuff.

I need any advice someone can give me. Whether it be content based, mixing based, or recording based. Anything at all. Did I pan the instruments right, did i set the levels right? Anything like that. If this song sucks i want you to tell me, if the mixing or recording sucks, i need that info too, and a reason of course. Ha. I appreciate the help guys. Your info is going to help the song out a lot i am sure. Thanks again.

Here is the link:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/onceneverread/singles

The song is the only song there called Why.

-Sean
 
WELCOME

This sucks worse than anything that has ever been posted here. Absolutely the worst recording I've ever heard. In fact, for fun, I recorded one of my farts to see which one had a wider sonic impression...the fart won.

(If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm kidding).

One thing is jumping out at me though; it's the definite lack of sustain in the bass. Besides the guitars, there needs to be something to carry some ambience through the tune...the bass is your friend here...but the way it's working, it's almost like it's just there to punctuate the kick.

Some of the vox are getting lost, but not all of them. I'm thinking maybe it's a compression thing (or lack of compression) on the vocals. The guitars sound raw, which works for me on this song.

I wanna' hear the vocals more before I comment on the song...but understand that I only used that opening paragraph to insure that NOTHING anybody posts after me will be more negative than that first paragraph. Kinda' gets the ball rolling.

:D

I'll be back.
-chris

EDIT: All I really said was...TURN THE BASS UP, A LOT.
(I'll still be back)
 
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the negatives I hear are the bass drum is woofy and boomy. The guitar on the left is tinny, and the right side guy, is just blazing the fuzz away. ...plus some timing problems and just a general overall 'garage band recording' sound. I think the guitars need to sound better before they hit the mic grills, and possibly the same with the drums too. Bass gtr?? couldn't really make out to much there either...except on the weird ending note(s).

Plus's ...good vocal sound and style to fit the song. That's a major plus. You can learn to record easier than you can with singing, so count your blessings. Catchy tune too. Just needs finesse with the solos, turnarounds, and stuff like that.

btw...welcome aboard...:)

oh yeah...those things really are HUGE!!
 
Fixing Problems

chrisharris: I noticed that about the Bass Guitar as well. What should I do in order to fix it though, to give it more sustain as you put it. Should the bass parts for the song be more of a rythmn type part instead of something that just accents the bass drum hits. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Also, i didn't use any compression on anything in the song, so should i have and if so what? I also noticed the vocals getting lost as well, mostly in the second verse, when the lead guitar continues as the lyrics are going. I am thinking just turn the levels down on the lead guitar in that part so the vocals don't get buried.

mixmkr: I noticed the sound of the bass drum were a little off, but was not sure on a way to fix it. I tried different placements with the mic but nothing seemed to give me a different sound. I am thinking the woofy and boomy sound you are hearing may be from the mic placement. The bass drum mic is placed in a hole in the drum head, but because of the stand being used, is only just barely in, maybe 3-4 inches. Would it be a better sound to have the bass drum mic further in the drum. Or maybe EQ could fix the problem. But with most things i understand EQ is the last thing you want to do. I am confident that i can fix the bass drum sound with simply mic placement. Let me know if you agree. What should i do about the tinny LEFT guitar sound? Would a fuller, thicker guitar sound, be better for the lead of this song. Or could i EQ down a little high end on that guitar to take some of that tinny sound away. I am aware of the timing problems that follow the stops before the chorus', but are there any other timing problems that i am missing. What were the problems with the sounds of the drums that you heard. Tuning or anything like that. I made sure to get new heads and I am pretty sure i seated them properly and they are in tune. Maybe you think differently? And i am aware of the bass problems as well, CHRISHARRIS filled me in. What is your opinion on a way to fix the problem with the bass guitar? Thank you for your comment on the vocals. If anything was bad about the song i would have said it was the vocals. I thought they were just too roomy and thin. I want to get a warmer, fuller sound, but I understand i will probably have to get a large condensor vocal mic in order to get that sound. But i am glad to see you found a positive thing in the song. HAHA. Thanks for your input as well. Its great that you guys are taking time to help me out.

-Sean
 
Sean....a lot of (new) questions.....


as I alluded to earlier...I think a lot of the sound (gtrs, bass drum....) has to do with what it REALLY sounds like. Don't just think mic placement and EQ will solve all the world's problems. Get that killer guitar sound first...same with the drum kit. ...then the fingers that play the guitar...same with the drums... The job of capturing great sounds is extremely simplified. I feel that's your weakness in getting good sounds now.

not many substitutes for trial and error, experimenting, great playing skills, and fine instruments. Get some 'hours' under your belt, and you'll see the improvements.
 
Good catchy tune!

Sounds like the instruments are in differant places,reverb wise.
What did you mix on,monitors or headphones?

Vocal sound was good,fits the song.

Good start.

Best to you,
Pete
 
Holy Hell -

Nobody's ever actually LISTENED to my input before. Gimme' a minute...I'm a little staggered here.

Okay - Sean, very cool that you posted a song with a mind towards actually making it better. If the following is insultingly simple and obvious to you, I apologize in advance.

First, in my opinion, EQ and Compression are your two best friends when recording...not things to be used only as a last resort. Everything you hear on the radio is compressed. (What??? Even the "live" recordings??). Hell yes...radio stations use compression to get all the different tunes on different albums (recorded at different levels) to be roughly the same volume. Ever noticed that a song on the radio oftentimes sounds BETTER than the version you've got on the CD in your stereo? It's Compression. (In fact, for "final mastering," you can call up a radio station you like and ask 'em what compression settings they're using...somebody there will be thrilled that you even know what a compressor is).

But enough of that. The bass guitar is probably the hands down leader in the "most likely to be compressed" category. The vocal is next, because it's the most "dynamic" (i.e., hard to control) "instrument" there is.

Now, I'm talking about compressing the individual tracks, not the "final mix." I can never tell what type of gear anybody has, even when they tell me like you did, because I'm just not a gear junkie...but I'm assuming you're using some software somewhere, right? If so, you can compress tracks AFTER you've recorded them with relative ease. It'll do 2 things for this tune...(a) the bass will have more sustain than it does...it won't drop in and out so much, and it (should) provide a lot of the low end that'll HELP THAT CRAPPY KICK SOUND :D :D; and (b) on vox, it'll make 'em a ton easier to mix because you're not jacking around with a slider or different volume settings for different parts of the track. You can obviously compress the tracks that you've got with outbound gear too, but I don't know anything about that, so I won't B.S. you and tell you I do.

EQ - throw some 50Hz into that kick. Not a ton...like 3db...Then, if you compress the bass git, I'd almost be willing to bet the kick will sound better.

FYI - You probably don't have to compress the distorted gits much, if any, because they really kinda' already are compressed by the time they're recorded. NOW ACOUSTIC GITS ARE DIFFERENT...but that's for another recording.

BTW- I totally agree with "mixmkr" that the vocals are strong and a big positive in this tune. On the other hand, I totally (and respectfully) disagree with his opinion on the electic tones on the gits. Like I said before...they're definitely "raw," but that totally works on this tune (for me). (Mutt Lange would disagree with me too).

keep us posted, so to speak
-chris
 
Before this falls off the page...

I can't believe nobody has jumped all over this thread and pointed out how wrong I am about everything. Maybe ya'll are just too lazy to read that much???

:D

:D

(*ahem* I still think "onrdrums" could use a little more help than I can offer).

-chris
 
onrdrums

The thing that strikes me about this is the "dryness"... no reverb, or very little... imhop a little reverb on your lead line might help. The song has a very blink182 feel. Lead guitar starts to go out of tune about 1:50... bass should try to keep the low end a bit more, in the chorus it seems to stay on the V (fifth) of tonic instead of following the key changes... but, that does sound cool in smaller doses

not a bad tune.
 
Reply

participant: I didn't put any reverb on anything in the song. As a matter of fact i really didn't do much to the song, besides a little EQ on the OH's and Bass Drum. No compression or anything. A little effects on the rythmn guitar, but that was done with an effects pedal. Would reverb and compression, or even EQ help out with some of my problems? How should i go about fixing the bass, what exactly do i need more of? Thanks for your help.

muzeman: i mixed on monitors. Thanks for your input.
 
K, here's what I think...but it may be crap.

I've never used only 3 mics on a kit before, and you got good results. EQ the drums. Especially the kick, and I do disagree with chrisharris about the 50Hz boost on the kick. You seem to have rolled off that low mud, and the kicker seems to have enough thump, but lacks the 'tick' (obviously achieved by boosting some high frequencies), and it lacks volume.....crack up the kicker. Also with the drums, I know that you are limited alot, only having the 2 overheads, but the toms and snare aren't there enough. Maybe try finding the snares frequency and boost it....some highs maybe sweept to 'get rid of' the symbols/high-hat. Just try screwing around with the EQ and see what you can do with those overheads. Try some different reverb on the drums...try and find something that has a 'big' sound, yet is dampened short. This will give the drums more of a studio quality and will rid your recording of that 'garage' sound. After that problem, turn the drums up....it sounds like they are hiding. We need to hear the stereo drums.

The guitars could use some EQing, however, that maybe what you are going for...they too need to be turned up.

The bass needs alot of work. I can't even hear it to tell you what it may need. It needs to hold the record together. As is, the vocals are what give this thing body....and they shouldn't. You mastered it good. It has volume and you've filled your EQ meters. It has alot of potential. Good work. Greg.
 
Dude,

It sounds good to me, and not because I am biased toward the delta 1010 (the best soundcard out there IMO)

The only problem I am having is with the soundstage. The guitar on the left doesnot sound like its playing in the same room as the other stuff.


Other than this, it sounds good to me.

Funk on!
 
OK chris....I'll disagree with you....I hate compression. It sucks even if it's the sound dujour. While it's true that radio stations compress the crap out of everything....it has as much to do with the technical realities of radio as it does with trying to get a certain sound although that figures into it also.
But to me it's something I only use when I have to. And if you read articles and interviews with audiophile type engineers....a lot of them eschew compression in any form unless absolutely neccessary. Granted....they tend to do acoustic music like jazz combos or chamber music and that doesn't totally translate to r&r but the principal of wanting to alter the sound as little as possible still applies. And even using compression....in my opinion it's best to get things a good as possible before using it and then add as little as possible.................unless Blue Bear tells me I'm full of shit in which case I'm wrong. :D
 
Re: Reply

onrdrums said:
How should i go about fixing the bass, what exactly do i need more of
Click to expand...

About the bass: What's going on in your track during the chorus is that the bass stays on the "fifth" too much; it doesn't hold up the song very much by following the tonic. (I know... too much "theory" :D)

For example, say your song is in the key of E (can't remember what key it was in, but for examples sake...) Then the bass just stays on B too much. Understand? :(

In the example, E is tonic, and B is the V or "fifth". You'll need to work out a bassline where you at least follow the key changes a little bit... although staying on the fifth or fourth for a few bars can sound cool...

As far as recording the bass... IIRC the bass in your song was very low in the mix, and dull. Sounds like it was recorded with heavy compression, and the threshold at -40, or something. You say tho that it had no compression. Well, you may want to try running the bass DI into a compressor with a slow attack time, and a medium release setting. If you set the threshold too low, all you'll have is a dull sounding bassline. HTH somewhat...


Chad
 
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