OMF files??

[DavidK]

What exactly is an OMF file?

It is my understanding that an OMF file can be used by most major software, including Pro Tools if one has the expansion kit. How bout things like automation? Do all the major software types respond to it?

I have a project I am doing in Sonar at home. It will be going to 2-3 other studios. One uses Cubase (mac), one uses Digital Performer ( mac) and one may use PT. I am mainly concerned with DP: can I burn an OMF file from Sonar and open it successfully with DP?

Of course, I will TRY it I am just kinda planning this out. Also, there is an OMF version one and version 2, whats the difference?

 

[bennychico11]

OMF=Open Media Framework

AAF and OMF are ways for storing and retreiving media data and metadata. Just like you thought, it allows projects to be freely exchanged between platforms. Basically the OMF contains all the instructions for assembling together the audio in your project/session. It's sort of a set standard of instructions that can translate between programs for you. It's used widely in video post productions. You can either store your audio information (media data) in a single OMF file or have the OMF link to audio information on a drive. The former will give you a larger file...but you'll only have a single file to deal with.

Know that some things do not transfer over. Including video files from some audio programs, plugin assignments, parameters, routing or grouping. You should render any effects before exporting to OMF.
I'm not sure the exact differences between OMF 1.0 and 2.0 but obviously 2.0 is the latest version. I know certain application versions can only use 2.0 (latest Pro Tools and Avid Media Composers are two such ones...there are probably others). So I think you'll be safe if you just stick with 2.0. 2.0 is probably just more reliable than 1.0 was.

HTH

 

[DavidK]

Thanks Benny!

The former will give you a larger file...but you'll only have a single file to deal with.

So, basically if I burn one file on a DVD it should work. Nothing is super-elaborate, I assume each track will be less than a gig.

Know that some things do not transfer over. Including video files from some audio programs, plugin assignments, parameters, routing or grouping. You should render any effects before exporting to OMF.

My point of doing this would be to use the toys (and expertise) of a commercial studio for eq, compression etc. The only thing I am concerned with is basic automation: will that transfer cross-platform or do I need to take it out? By automation I only mean volume and possible panning.

 

[MessianicDreams]

What exactly is an OMF file?

An OMF (Open Media Framework) was developed by Avid to ease transporting between various daws. It is basically a standardised EDL (edit decision list) and serves as pointers, on a timeline, towards audio files.


When exporting as OMF, there's various options:


Wrapped (includes video files with audio) or unwrapped (audio only).

Type one: creates an OMF file which includes the audio itself
Type two: creates an OMF file which does not include audio!




Or that's my understanding anyways

 

[bennychico11]

My point of doing this would be to use the toys (and expertise) of a commercial studio for eq, compression etc. The only thing I am concerned with is basic automation: will that transfer cross-platform or do I need to take it out? By automation I only mean volume and possible panning.

yeah, automation will be included. I think OMF 2.0 is exactly what you're looking for in your case...so go with that

 

[DavidK]

Thanks guys. I am going to try it next week. I will burn an OMF version 2 and see what happens. The studio with PT has the digi-translator.

 

[dgatwood]

It should work. DP has a significantly bug-fixed version of the OMF stack. It is very forgiving---willing to at least halfway tolerate even some of the most thoroughly hosed OMF files I could generate. It is MUCH more tolerant of crap OMF than some other apps. Of course, I'm basing that on 4.5---I'm not sure about DP 5---but that probably applies equally to later versions.

The one thing I'd warn you about is that the OMF format isn't as well specified as it should be, IMHO. A lot of software doesn't do a good job reading OMF files---particularly files with lots of automation and stuff. And crossfades are basically unsupported in the format; you can specify a format, but the only officially supported crossfade type is linear interpolation, which is almost never what you want. Thus, you may still have a fair amount of reworking to do if you have a lot of edits---nowhere near as bad as rerecording it or anything, but still not trivial.

My advice: export multiple versions with different options. Export at least one with nothing but the regions---no transitions, no automation, OMF 1.0. Then export OMF 2.0 with progressively more data, and then a final version with everything. That way, if some part of the OMF data does happen to choke DP, at least you will be able to get most of it.

In case you can't tell, yes, I have written tools that write OMF files... without the OMF libraries... and tools to at least read the container format, too. It's really scary. At least AAF has an XML variant (though the more common Microsoft COM-based AAF format is every bit as heinous as OMF, if not more so; at least there's an open spec for OMF and Bento if you can find it). If you think OMF/AAF is painful to use, imagine how much more painful it is to debug.

 

[JoeNovice]

dgatwood -

I'm picking up an OMF of a film I'm engineering tomorrow. The director just bought Automatic Duck to create the OMF 2.0 export from FinalCutPro and I plan to import into ProTools HD with the digitranslator.

On a test run the panning and automation were OK and in tact. Are you stating that all the cross-fades will be missing?!? That could be a nightmare for me considering the project has 1000 edits.

Is there an export method that will include crossfades?

 

[DavidK]

dgatwood -

I'm picking up an OMF of a film I'm engineering tomorrow. The director just bought Automatic Duck to create the OMF 2.0 export from FinalCutPro and I plan to import into ProTools HD with the digitranslator.

On a test run the panning and automation were OK and in tact. Are you stating that all the cross-fades will be missing?!? That could be a nightmare for me considering the project has 1000 edits.

Is there an export method that will include crossfades?

I guess its a damn good thing I started this thread.

As for mine, I will have it automationless. I have the demo tracks automated, its easy to undo (clear) in Sonar. I could see that being a huge issue in film, good luck Joe.

I know the material very well, I wrote it. I WILL have a backup plan, I will try OMF first and if it doesnt work I will load individual wav files.

 

[bennychico11]

dgatwood -

I'm picking up an OMF of a film I'm engineering tomorrow. The director just bought Automatic Duck to create the OMF 2.0 export from FinalCutPro and I plan to import into ProTools HD with the digitranslator.

On a test run the panning and automation were OK and in tact. Are you stating that all the cross-fades will be missing?!? That could be a nightmare for me considering the project has 1000 edits.

Is there an export method that will include crossfades?

Automatic Duck's Pro Export FCP 3.0:
* All audio tracks exported at once
* Audio media embedding into OMF
* Audio resampling to 32000 KHz, 44100 KHz, 48000 KHz or 96000 KHz for maximum export flexibility
* Speed Changes (constant, not variable)
* Bit rate options of 16-bit or 24-bit
* User definable handles for export
* Audio crossfades
* Audio keyframes become gain automation in OMF
* Clip-based audio levels maintained (not all DAWs convert clip-based gain)
* Pan information translated into OMF
* 24fps sequences are supported for exports to DAWs like Pro Tools.




wouldn't matter that much anyway. most video editors I work with don't understand cross fades...or don't bother messing with it because they know an audio guy is going to touch it. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever gotten a project with a cross fade in it via OMF...but batch fades usually works just fine.

DavidK-
I've had 100% success rate with OMF files...from several different video systems and other audio platforms. Not saying there isn't a problem for some people...but it's never caused me any. Maybe I'm just lucky

 

[dgatwood]

I'm picking up an OMF of a film I'm engineering tomorrow. The director just bought Automatic Duck to create the OMF 2.0 export from FinalCutPro and I plan to import into ProTools HD with the digitranslator.

On a test run the panning and automation were OK and in tact. Are you stating that all the cross-fades will be missing?!? That could be a nightmare for me considering the project has 1000 edits.

No, I'm saying that if you use non-linear crossfades (e.g. equal power curves), they will all become linear unless there's a newer version of the spec that fixes that stupidity. If you can do AAF, I'd go with AAF, as I would hope they have fixed some of those rather gaping flaws in the format by now.

The cleanest way, IMHO, if your export software has an option to do this, is to export the crossfades as rendered regions. That way, you get precisely what the original editing software produced.

Assuming that you're doing reference clips (with the audio in the original external files)---and I can't imagine that anybody sane would do anything BUT reference clips---if you decide that one of those edits needs to be changed, you can always go back and delete the rendered crossfade, stretch the original clips back out, and put the crossfade back in however you'd like.

 

[JoeNovice]

OK... I've got some things to report and hope for some suggestions.


I've loaded this OMF into Cubase and have experienced very bizarre panning issues. Every dual mono track; Left is panned center and Right is hard-panned R.

The volume automation is also off in compairison to the original FinalCutPro project!

Would you suspect this to be a problem with the OMF (file or standard) or a setting with Final Cut Pro?

 

[dgatwood]

OK... I've got some things to report and hope for some suggestions.


I've loaded this OMF into Cubase and have experienced very bizarre panning issues. Every dual mono track; Left is panned center and Right is hard-panned R.

The volume automation is also off in compairison to the original FinalCutPro project!

Would you suspect this to be a problem with the OMF (file or standard) or a setting with Final Cut Pro?

It's either a bug in the importer or exporter, but I couldn't guess which without seeing the file. If you email me the OMF file at dgatwood at mac dot com (JUST the OMF file, NOT the audio files, PLEASE!), I'll run my dump tool and see what it says. If there are a lot of tracks, be sure to tell me which tracks I should be looking at.

Panning is actually one of the easiest things to get right. It's just a mono audio pan effect (omfi:effect:MonoAudioPan) with a sound source as the first parameter (probably a composition) and a floating point number as the second parameter with range of 0 (left) to 1 (right). If they can't get something that simple right, it's a miracle if anything else works....

Volume is also really, really easy, and whichever import/export piece is broken, it's probably broken in the same way. They probably mis-scaled the values to be from -1 to 1 instead of from 0 to 1 (well, techically you can do gain from 0 to 2^32 - 1, but everything above 1 is a gain boost). Okay, that probably makes it a bug in Cubase if I were guessing....

 

[JoeNovice]

Very greatful for the offer. I will get the OMF (no audio) to you soon as possible. I guess I have to get another export... unless there's a way to seperate the OMF from its audio.

 

[DavidK]

I just experimented. I save an OMF file version 2, and then opened it with Sonar, which is what I used in the first place. Results:

Not bad. If they all work like this, I will be able to do what I need. The volumes are different, I had some muted tracks that are not muted now, etc. Definitely quick fixes.

The one thing that is missing is midi. My project had midi tracks and audio, all the midi are gone. I recorded each track to audio so its all there, but I wanted the midi tracks as well in case I wanted to try different patches at the studio. I assume I can just save a midi only file and do it that way.

I tried to open it in Cubase LE and it didnt work. It might not support OMF? It was a freebie with some gear and I have never used it.

 

[dgatwood]

Very greatful for the offer. I will get the OMF (no audio) to you soon as possible. I guess I have to get another export... unless there's a way to seperate the OMF from its audio.

OMF files are almost always separate from the audio files due to the... IIRC 2GB limit inherent in the Bento container format that OMF is built on top of.

 

[JoeNovice]

This one is a single file; audio embedded within. It is only the first 30min of the movie and was less than 2GB.

 

[cello_pudding]

man...with how much i've seen not work going for PT to PT, i would just do a stems bounce. since your plugins probably aren't on all these systems, and just so many things can be different. i wouldn't trust anything but the program interpreting your wav/aiff files correctly. i think the omf's are just for your studio's reference.

maybe i'm just a tech-pessimist...

 

[dgatwood]

This one is a single file; audio embedded within. It is only the first 30min of the movie and was less than 2GB.

Ah. That's right. You said this was for a movie, which means a relatively small number of audio tracks. That makes sense.

I'm used to audio multitracking projects with 30+ tracks of live instruments and stuff. At 30 tracks, that's 8.2 megs per second at 96k/24, so two gigs is only 256 seconds, or a little over four minutes. With disabled scratch tracks on top of that, I would hit the 2 gig limit pretty frequently if I ever tried to encode that way.

Of course, for most of what I use OMF for, I wouldn't want to try to embed the audio anyway because I'd have to write the code to do the embedding, which would be a pain in the you-know-what.