Ok So Lets Review This Bouncing Of Tracks?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MikeDMusic
  • Start date Start date
M

MikeDMusic

New member
Alright so I understand that bouncing tracks is simply mixing them down to one track and saving it as a single .aiff or .wav file. So I see where this apply's when you're finished mixing a song and you want to put it on a cd and pop it into a couple different stereo's. But here's my real concern: When i'm recording on DP 4.5 and my 1.33 Ghz aluminum powerbook w/ 768 MB DDR RAM I have trouble once I start using more then lets say nine or ten tracks with Waves plug-ins and such. My computer starts to run super slow and it takes about fifteen years to accomplish anything. So can I mix a couple of tracks the way I want them let's just say the drum tracks...then can I bounce just the drum tracks to a track of their own and then import them into DP and have my entire drum track pre-mixed and on a single track for the rest of the mixing process. The only problem I foresee with this technique is...what if once I've gotten more into the mix I decide that my snare hit needs to be louder...THEN WHAT DO I DO? ALL help is appreciated. Thanks

Mike :D
 
I just had this problem the other day and the solution was pretty easy. I was doing a song kinda backwards i did the instruments like 6 months ago and the vocalist just made it back from iraq. I already had like 25 tracks all mixed and everything and really didn't have cpu power to record anything more without some serious latency. So I bounced the entire session down to a stereo track then recorded the vocals on that leaving me with plenty of cpu room. Then I imported the vocals back in the original mix and it worked perfectly. The other idea I had was to bounce the tracks down like i did before, record vocals then if the mix didn't sit right, go back tweak the mix how it needs and rebounce it then replace the old stereo track and do this til it works. The first way is the easiest the second way would be a ton of going back and forth, but it can be done.
 
MikeDMusic said:
what if once I've gotten more into the mix I decide that my snare hit needs to be louder...THEN WHAT DO I DO? ALL help is appreciated. Thanks
Don't delete your original tracking files when you create your submixes (what you're calling your bounce tracks.) Consider the submixes just "working files".

I'm not sure of the terminolongy used in DP, but here's how I do the workflow. When I create a submix/bounce file, I save the whole project with the individual tracks as they are at the same time. Then when I import the new submix files I save the project under a different version name. (e.g. I might name the first one may be "songname_drums submix_1" or something like that.)

The idea is if you need to go back to tracks before the submix, you can go back to the previous verion of the project with the tracking as it was when you created the first bounce/submix track, you can re-mix the snare, and the create a new version of the bounced submix as yet another file that you can then import into yet another version of the project.

The good part is you're not throwing anything away, ad you can always go back to a previous "breakpoint" in the project and re-do something if need be. The tougher part is keeping track of all of those files. The key there is in the naming and location of the files on your system. Make the names as descriptive as possible (without being as long as one of my posts ;) ) using some kind of standard naming and version method and if necessary, save them into different folders to organze them even more.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Then when I import the new submix files I save the project under a different version name. (e.g. I might name the first one may be "songname_drums submix_1" or something like that.)
I've been thinking about trying to do that too, SouthSIDE, but it kind of scares me. Tell me something: Do you have a written filing system of some kind to keep track of what's stored where and what it's intended for later? Or do you just pick really good names for your submix files so that the names always remind you of what each file is and what you're saving it for? Or are you one of those guys who can keep it all in his head?

It's a great idea. But it also sounds kind of daunting from a management perspective, ya know? I guess I could try stapling extra track sheets onto the main sheet. That might work. Somehow I've got to get control over the rapidly growing collection of loose slips of paper in my studio that contain cryptic little notes to myself. That ain't workin'.
 
I don't know if DP has anything like this feature, but Cakewalk has a nice way of doing it. You can "archive" tracks in Sonar. It mutes the track and completely ignores all processing related to it. What i do is bounce my submix and then archive the orginals. If the track count is really growing Sonar also has a feature that allows you to "hide" the tracks. When i want to make changes, i simply unhide and unarchive the tracks.

Hope this helps
 
prestomation said:
I don't know if DP has anything like this feature, but Cakewalk has a nice way of doing it. You can "archive" tracks in Sonar. It mutes the track and completely ignores all processing related to it. What i do is bounce my submix and then archive the orginals. If the track count is really growing Sonar also has a feature that allows you to "hide" the tracks. When i want to make changes, i simply unhide and unarchive the tracks.

Hope this helps

This is how I manage bouncing(or submixing) as well.

The naming of files can be rather important as the size of a project grows. I like incorporating dates into the naming, to help identify the latest versions. Sonar also has an "info" feature that I use to store notes about the file. This is a wonderful tool and much better than sticky notes flying around the studio!

Joel
 
HapiCmpur said:
I've been thinking about trying to do that too, SouthSIDE, but it kind of scares me. Tell me something: Do you have a written filing system of some kind to keep track of what's stored where and what it's intended for later? Or do you just pick really good names for your submix files so that the names always remind you of what each file is and what you're saving it for? Or are you one of those guys who can keep it all in his head?

Answer:

C. All of the above. :D

I do have a pretty good memory, but I've found in this aspect that memory alone just won't cut it. You'd have to remember almost every edit you've made to every track, and tha'ts just beyond my capacity. Especially once I've moved on the the next song only to find I have to go back and make some change to the previous song.

I do have a system that I use in my file naming and my workflow, and I also keep a small text log that just summerizes the state of things each time I save a new version of the project. For example:

For a track file name for a song where the track is the left-side rhythm guitar that I have laid out on track 6 I might use a filename like: "artist_songname_6_rthgit_L.wav." If I hard render a seperate version of that thrack where I've split the track into stereo and soaked it in stereo reverb, that rendering might be called "songname_6_rthgit_L_2ch_verb.wav".

For the project/session files themselves I might start out with "artist_songname_base_mix" which is where I've saved the starting point for the mixing process, which is just basically all the tracks laid out and assigned in the multitrack editor with the channel strips named and color-coded as desired. No actual settings, edits, levels, etc. have actually been made yet for this saved file. This gives me a clean start that I can always fall back to if I get really mucked up or decide that I was going down a dead end road in my mix or something and I need to make sure I can "undo" all the way back to the beginning without having to re-setup the project/session all over again.

Once I have that starting canvas saved, then I immediately change the project name to "artist_songname_main_mix_A" and save it again so I'm now woring on a mix file and not the saved starting point file. I'll keep working under "main_mix" unless or until I get to a point where I want to try a couple of different directions, in which case I might keep a seperate "main_mix_B" or even a "main_mix_C" so I can explore the differen mix approaches individually and be able to go back to one or the other as needed.

If I have to bounce/submix my drum tracks, say, in mix B because my CPU is getting taxed or something, then I'll leave "mix_B" where I've left it and save the project/session version with the submix as "artist_songname_submix_B_drums", with the rendered file saved as the same filename but with a .wav extension. If I then need to go back and boost the snare as you say, I can go back to the original "mix_B", remix the submix, save the change to the submix and then return to the submixed version of the project.

When I'm ready to mixdown, I'll save the mixdown file as "atist_songname_mixdown_A.wav", with subsequent letteres reserved for any alternate mixdown versions I may want to try.

When I've finished pre-mastering the mixdown, that will wind up saved as "artist_songname_master_A" with again subsequent letters used if I have more than one trial masters.

Finally, I organize this into folders. I'll have one main folder for each client. Within those client folders is a level of folders with one folder per client project (a client project could be one song or it could be a whole CD of songs, depending on the actual physical project). Within the project folder, there is one folder per song in the project. In each song folder proper is where I put the tracking and rendered track files. The software project/session mix files and mixdown WAVs go into a "mixes" folder there and the mixdowns and masters go into a "masters" folder.

The key to keep it from not getting too out of hand is the judicious use of the creation of new versions of a mix session file. Don't create a new one very time you make one change, of course. I guess my general thinking there is if you've made a change to the mix that is otherwise "undoable", like replacing 4 drum tracks with a stereo bounce track, then you'll want to have before and after versions. The whole idea to to keep a history so you can go back if need be. The other time to save unique versions of you mix is when you get to a point in the mix process where you want to try a different mix or approach altogether, you would save that alternate mix under a different file so if that turns out to be a dead end, you can always go back to the original mix where you left off and yoyu haven't burnt your bridges behind you.

It's in the saving of those before/after and alternate mix project files where I'll often keep a text log just giving a quick description of what that version of the project mix is all about. One or two sentences of quick description usually suffices.

This all sounds like a lot, but it's really not when you get down to it, it's all just a logical heirarchy of folders and filenames that's very easy and descriptive to follow and a nice basic way to organize hundreds of WAV and project files; you're only creating new versions of your project files when you reach what would otherwise be a "point of no return" in the process so you can get back to previous versions of your mix if need be.

Hope this makes some kind of sense to you. It does to me, but then again I'm a bit goofy sometimes ;)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Hope this makes some kind of sense to you. It does to me, but then again I'm a bit goofy sometimes ;)
It makes perfect sense. In fact, it seems like the kind of system that my left-brained tendencies would have arrived at on their own, given enough time and enough trial and error. This thread has saved me a considerable amount of both. Thanks. (And I hope MikeD has enjoyed it as much as I have.)
 
In Nuendo, I just mix (drums for example) and import that into the session. I then take all the tracks that made up that bounce and disable them and turn bypass all the processing. If I need to go back, I just enable those original tracks and do it over again. Simple, no need to have multiple sessions for the same song.
 
Im not sure if this is a possibility for you but in Pro-tools I make a copy of the track on a different playlist. I use rtas plugins to get the sound I want then copy the settings and use audiosuite to process the copied track (playlist). Then I make my Rtas plugin inactive so there is no CPU drain. If I need to make a change I go back to the original playlist, activate the plugin and repeat the process.

I think it was already mentioned but another thing i do is bring the bounced track say the drums back into the same session then make all the individual drum tracks inactive so there is no cpu use. If you need to make a change just reactivate them, make the change and bounce again.
 
Back
Top