OK. I can't help it. My first job with the new baby set up

[Chris Shaeffer]

I still feel a bit like a kid who got away with stealing a whole box of candy bars at the corner store and I've found a quiet place to chow down on 'em. I might have a stomach ache later, but for now I'm in recording geek heaven.

So I brought home my "good" mixer from the studio- a Soundtracs Solo MIDI 16x8- and scored a couple DX-4d's off ebay. Local, too, so I picked them up right away. Last night I headed home from work "early" (as in before 10pm) and spent the whole night enjoyably wiring it up and testing it out. I got my trial and error stuff out of the way last week and this time I wanted to do something real.

I picked a newer song that I hadn't really done a good recording of and that I'm proposing for a colaboration with a friend in Hawaii. I posted it at my site with lyrics and production notes for him. I think I finally hit the hay at 3am.

And this candy-bar-eating-and-grininng-from-ear-to-ear kid can't help but post a link here for you folks. Not sure why, really- I'm just happy and want to share my candy.

http://www.chrisshaeffer.com/drafts/analost.html

(Edit: rats- the upload didn't work. Curse my old, slow phone line! I'll try again.)

So my general feeling is:

1) D@mn, but this is so much more satisfying than Pro Tools. I appreciate that PT gives me 32 tracks and a boat-load of cool functionality.... but... I don't need to explain it to you in this forum, do I?
2) The dbx kicks butt- I had no idea how much it would clean up. It also eliminates the crosstalk I was noticing before I hooked it up. Way better than the Type II dbx on the old 4-track. Almost as clean as and more forgiving than Pro Tools. Setting levels is easier with it, too- more like I remember from when I started.
3) I think my mbox is going to be gathering quite a bit more dust than I thought. The 48 is now officially my home recording box. After working with computers all day its nice to NOT use one for my favorite hobby.
4) Thinking about picking of a local 80-8 cheap to have a beatup machine for learning calibration and alignment. Or maybe a 388... Or saving up for a 16 track... Am I addicted?... Should I be posting this in the SAS forum?

And for a nice ironic twist- the entire project was recorded while my data recovery software cranked away at finding all the data on my primary studio drive: it lost its identitly a little while ago.

OK. Back to munching my candy.

take care,
Chris

 

[jpmorris]

Let us know when the link goes live.

BTW, if anyone's curious, this is my latest project. I'm as chuffed as Chris, so it seems a good place to put it:

Writing, planning out and sequencing took several weeks, but the recording took exactly two evenings. The mix is still a little flakey, and in that version MUST be played in stereo otherwise the chorus magically vanishes. I'll fix it in a later version. The recorder was a TSR-8, mixdown was done digitally owing to the fact that I need to buy some more 1/4" tape and was in a hurry.

Isn't it amazing what you can do with just seven tracks?

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

OK. The link should work now. The linked page has brief production notes so I won't repeat them here.

Off to download your mix, jp. Good thing I don't have much to do today except let the data recovery program copy the data to a good drive- yes, its *still* going. Meanwhile, I can still record while the computer is busy... what a novel concept!

Yeah- the 8 tracks is a fair amount of space. Especially for quick demo and arrangement work. I can't layer 14 vocal tracks like I tend to in Pro Tools, but I also don't really feel like it. So far I don't find myself feeling like adding more stuff to make it sound big- it already does. Of course, this tune has 2 12-strings filling up the space. I think I'll try a tune that needs more than 8 and see how it does with bouncing.

I'm so happy with this: it actually feels like a fun hobby again. A pleasant mix of new and familiar. I'm going to loose months to this.

-Chris

 

[quarterinch]

BTW, if anyone's curious, this is my latest project.

Wow man! You are very good. I closed my eyes and felt like I was driving a sleek, black Astin-Martin with dark tinted windows around a pre-Apocalyptic Wales.

Would like to hear more.

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

I agree. Reallt tight production there! I *love* the effecty, flangy, talk-boxy effect there is going on with the vocals in places. How did you do that? Is it just doubled with cool effecty... is that a guitar I hear? Synth? Fun.

Also what did you track and mix this through?

Good work!

-Chris

 

[jpmorris]

I agree. Reallt tight production there! I *love* the effecty, flangy, talk-boxy effect there is going on with the vocals in places. How did you do that? Is it just doubled with cool effecty... is that a guitar I hear? Synth? Fun.

Also what did you track and mix this through?

Good work!

-Chris

Thanks. The vocals are simply multitracked. I wrote the verses to fit the music. This requires a more rapid change of context that I can easily do, so I hit upon the idea of using the left and right tracks to help. VDGG did this on 'Firebrand' which is where I got the idea from. It's a little heavy on the autotune.. I still haven't learned how to use it effectively. Either it's too heavy and obvious, or too light and not actually correcting the pitch.

Equipment details are here:
http://www.it-he.org/lab.htm

Basically the whole thing was sequenced in Sonar first, and then committed to tape track by track. For the interested, track allocation is as follows:

1. Drums (JV1010, may switch to Alesis SR16 in future)
2. JV1010 bass + Waldorf pulse bass/lead (the minimoog clone)
3. Oberheim poly (Roland M-VS1, since I can't afford the real thing)
4. T8 Sync (MVS-1), microWave/PPG bass, guitar (more on that later)
5. left vocals
6. right vocals
7. lead vocals, the 'ZooCity(city)' sample I made earlier.
8. SMPTE

The guitar is, regrettably, not really a guitar. It's actually made by abusing the Applied Acoustics Lounge Lizard software, which was designed to do electric pianos. I discovered it was possible to do power chords on it, although the sustain is not good.

The mixing desk was a Behringer MX-802a which I intend to replace with a Yamaha or something. Since it has only 6 sets of controls, 5+6 are permanently set as a stereo pair. Overall compression was provided by a TLA Fat-1, with stereo enhancement provided by a SPL Vitalizer Jack, and it was recorded to Audacity under Linux.

The song was originally inspired by and is based on a bizarre, post-apocalyptic webcomic by 'Equidna', called ZooCity.. so it's actually set in Spain, not Wales
I've been inspired a lot by webcomics lately, and am currently working on a project to record soundtracks for one of them, as if it was a radio series.
In terms of output, I now have a complete first album waiting for me to afford to get it professionally mastered, a second album in progress, and things like this which will have to go on a third album since #2 is full.

I don't mind if people poke around here:
http://www.jpmorris.force9.co.uk/music/
..in particular there is an early mix of 'Quest for the Sacred Jaguar' which is my favourite song on the first album. Various tuning and technical issues were fixed since that version, but I keep it around as a taster.
Many of the songs are in Ogg format (Winamp 3 or 5 will play those). As a rule files with the extension '.wav.mp3' are not music but clips or experiments from the 'radio project'.

Enough about me. Chris, I liked your song, although I must confess it's not the sort of style I usually listen to much. I can't fault the performance or recording at all, though, and of course you win hands down over me since you can actually play instruments and I can only program sequencers

 

[Herm]

Ok guys good job and since its tascam 8 track day I just have to add a cover tune some friends of mine did here a couple of months ago.

The recording chain is Tascam 38 with dbx, Tascam m312b mixer mixed in to a m audio delta 44 audio card.
The youngest person in this band is 54 The oldest 62 and they are still giggin.
Its a 6 piece oldies group.

Go here and click windy to play the song. http://mysite.verizon.net/resopl6x/

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Eight track day!

Yeah! I hope I'm still going strong at 64. I'm half way there.

Herm: Cool tune. No autotune there, I bet! Maybe I'm hearing things because I just "finished" (i.e. quit working on) a tune where I bounced the rythm tracks to stereo to free up tracks, and I noticed something similar but...

There's 2 distinct qualities going on in that recording. You've got the vocals which are remarkably crisp, clear, and hi-fi and a much lower-fi rythm section. Did they bounce the basic tracks to mono? I only picked out a couple non-centered elements that weren't vocals. It works, though.

I remember discovering the importance of bouncing in stereo when I learned I could bounce my 4-track off a VCR wihtout much generation loss. Bounce in stereo, add 2 tracks, bounce in stereo, add 2 tracks... etc. Suddenly I could keep the drums in stereo, at least, and they set the stereo field for the whole song. I guess I just assumed that was how to do it so I was surprised to hear so much of the foundation of that recording crowded together in the center.

JP:
Ha! Programing sequencers is a skill in itself, and I've done it enough to realize that its no easier than playing on instrument. You pretty much put your time in editing and tweaking DURING the process while a musician puts the time in BEFORE while learning to play...

It probably was the autotune I was hearing. It has a pretty distinct signature- but it fits so well into the feel of the song that I didn't recognize it. Its interesting to me that you sequence with your computer but pass it through the tape and mixer. Why do you do it that way? I guess I just never thought of electronica and tape being a natural match.

take care,
Chris

 

[Herm]

The bass and the drums had to be low fi cause of some disputes on how to record them between me and the drummer and bass player. I lost and did it the way they wanted it done and this is what they got.
The only thing on this recording that is in the center is the lead vocal and that is all. Everthing was panned slightly to one side or the other .

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Herm, what was the technique that the drummer and bass player insisted on?

 

[jpmorris]

Yeah! I hope I'm still going strong at 64. I'm half way there.

JP:
Ha! Programing sequencers is a skill in itself, and I've done it enough to realize that its no easier than playing on instrument. You pretty much put your time in editing and tweaking DURING the process while a musician puts the time in BEFORE while learning to play...

It probably was the autotune I was hearing. It has a pretty distinct signature- but it fits so well into the feel of the song that I didn't recognize it. Its interesting to me that you sequence with your computer but pass it through the tape and mixer. Why do you do it that way? I guess I just never thought of electronica and tape being a natural match.

'Electronica' isn't quite what I set out to do. I generally enjoy listening to ELP, Rush and early Genesis, so I really set out to do prog-rock. Trouble is I'm not very good at it! That and the reliance on sequencers has given me something a bit like what prog-rock might have done if punk hadn't interrupted it.

I've only deliberately set out to do two electronic/dance type things: 'Ultimatum' which was done as a joke anyway, and 'Cubi Fight' was done in a videogame style to act as backing for a fight scene in the 'radio project'.

I think to sum up your last question, you are asking why I don't "mix in the box". Firstly, I hate Windows with a passion, and the recording environment in Linux is still too immature. I intend to leave Sonar for a Linux sequencer, or leave Windows for ReactOS, whichever becomes viable first.
Secondly, at the time I was equipping the studio a new 8-channel soundcard cost about the same as a Tascam 38 or R8. The TSR-8 was about the same (although that wasn't the seller's intention! Never do a 1-day auction on a Sunday.). I'm not sure my PC could both run as recorder and run the sequencer reliably at the same time, and I wanted to use outboard gear not VST effects which will die when Windows goes away or breaks compatibility.
Thirdly, I wanted to have the recordings in a physical form, not just on a hard disk. (Although I intend to get an 8-track soundcard anyway, to back up the tapes).
Fourthly, I wanted to try the Old Ways. Doing it all in a single unit with the ability to drag stuff around seemed too easy. While admittedly I do this anyway on the sequencer, the vocals are harder. If they go wrong, you do it again!)

Herm: I do like that song. What's the band called, and is the rest of the album available? Is there a webpage? (He says knowing full well that he doesn't have a webpage or downloadable album either..)

 

[Dr ZEE]

Chris! I really could Sirtaki to this . heh heh . That's a great song and sounds wonderful to my ear. Congrats on 'mission accomplished'

and Herm, thanks a bunch for that sort of time-travel Lovely too !

Jpmorris! WOW the vocals on Zoo are really something - could be a hit back in Synth-Pop era ...sorta speak. And the rest of 'instrumentation' is pretty good... well, not to be so picky thou... I used to be allot into electronic, synth-pop and stuff ...so I'm sensitive to details in that field I can tell you this for sure : get rid of the 'snare' (it goes away more to the end of the song, which is a good thing ). This snare sample/sound is simply and absolutely UNACCEPTABLE! Take my word for this, man ... better nothing at all. It kills me to hear it. Or replace it with some what have you 'hi-pitch noise shot' ...gently, thou ..not too hard - to create sort of soft analog electronic snare sound if you really feel like having snare in your sequence for this song. And NO-fills ...ta-ta-ta-ta(s) - - that's unacceptable as well - just primitive drops.

okey, guys, you ROCK

and here comes Zorba:

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Muchas Gracious, Doc.

You know, I had to hit Wikipedia to figure out what Sirtaki was... got a good giggle out of it. Never really thought of my stuff as dance music, though I suppose this particular tune is supposed to recall something half ethnic sorta maybe in the back of your mind somewhere.

I posted another one that's a little more modern- or at least a little less intentionally archaic. My first bouncing experiement with the 48, actually. Fun project- be warned of the lead guitar... I was *really* tired and just wanted something in there to fill out the mix... I apologize.

http://www.chrisshaeffer.com/drafts/hwl.html

And that.... was my entire weekend. Quite a pleasant adventure, actually.

Chris

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Hey JP-

I probably shouldn't have used the word "Electronica" as I have my own definition of it:

(from the 3rd Edition of The Official Shaeffer Dictionary of Christopherian English)

Electronica (E'-lek-TRON-ika): noun. 1) any music made primarily with electronic instruments such as samplers, synthesizers, and drum machines.



And Kudos to you for braving the Linux world. I want Linux to work so badly, and it does for the most part, but I use Pro Tools (PC and Mac) for at least part of my living... and keep the &^#*$^%#&! Windows machines running for the rest of my living...

-C

 

[A Reel Person]

I just wanna say "congrats",...

for the new acquisition,... and for really jumping headlong into vintage analog!

Tascam reel gear is near and dear to me, and you've really scored by picking up the 48. Some of my most impressive sounding "schwackster-pieces" were recording on 1/2" 8-track, (38). It really is the bomb, and it sounds great, too!

I don't have the in-depth experience in digital recording, so I have nothing to "leave", or look longingly back on. Basically, I'll record my analog mixes to the 'puter, to lay them on cds, and I also have the Tascam 564 MD Portastudio, Yamaha MD8 minidisc 8-track porta-format recorder, the Fostex FD-4 and the Fostex FD-8,... so I'm not exactly clueless about digital, but it's certainly not my primary format.

Great score on the Tascam 48 !!! WTG !!!

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Thanks, Dave. And thank you for your relentless, informative posting over the years. Between you, Beck, Ghost, (a few others who's screen names I can't recall) and the search function here I felt pretty well informed in my back-to-the-future adventure.

Its funny, but hunting down a 1/2" 8 track was actually partly a business decision. I have a *very small* business doing demos, soundtracks, audio cleanup, etc. stuff (did I mention it was *small?*) and was recently looking into advertising a bit, hanging out a shingle, trying to drum up a bit more business.

Well, everyone and their dogs have the same Pro Tools LE rig that I have and they all have their "Pro Studio! $25/hour!" shingles out, too. Its like a swarm of locusts around here. It might not seem like it gels with current marketng hype, but having a relatively wide format tape machine actually sets you apart in the low-end market.

Besides, I'm so bored working with Pro Tools. I mix analog anyway because it sounds better, is way more impressive, and is interesting for me. Its easy enough to drop a different deck in there for a new challenge. Its almost like gasping for fresh air. Not that digitial recording is bad- I'm just saturated with it. I needed something fun to do and this was the perfect thing.

Take care,
Chris

 

[jpmorris]

Hey JP-

I probably shouldn't have used the word "Electronica" as I have my own definition of it:

In that case you are forgiven >

By the way, your 'Hard Winter Long' file is only 526k long, as opposed to the promised 4.9MB. You might want to look into that.

And Kudos to you for braving the Linux world. I want Linux to work so badly, and it does for the most part, but I use Pro Tools (PC and Mac) for at least part of my living... and keep the &^#*$^%#&! Windows machines running for the rest of my living...

If ever I am forced to switch to a digital system, I'll be trying out Ardour. It seems to have promise, but whether it can take on Pro Tools is debatable.
For small editings job, Audacity works pretty well. I've been using it to record mixes from tape, and it works okay for that. I have been using it very extensively on the webcomic-as-a-radio-series project.. it is very good for aligning short clips of dialogue from multiple actors. But that's drifting from the analogue thing.

Does your 'small business' extend to mastering, by the way?

Doc, I've taken your suggestion on board. I was kind of torn over the fills myself. As I understand it, you think that just the bass drum is OK and the snare is overkill. I'll record it like that using the SR16 at some point in the near future.

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

I fixed the botched upload of Hard Winter Long. Thanks for the headsup... from now on I'll do all my uploading on the fast connection at work.... sorry about that.

If ever I am forced to switch to a digital system, I'll be trying out Ardour. It seems to have promise, but whether it can take on Pro Tools is debatable.[/qoute]

Ardour did look interesting. No, it can't take on Pro Tools in any category except price... but well worth looking into if only to back up your tape tracks to CD or DVD. Or for bouncing.

Does your 'small business' extend to mastering, by the way?

It does. Its one of my favorite things to do, actually. I'll be honest: I'm not really equipped to compete with ME's who do that as their primary business, but my clients have all been happy with my work. If you're asking because I might be able to help you with something PM me and we'll talk about it offline.

And now.... I'm off to bed. First night before 2am for quite some time.

-Chris

 

[Dr ZEE]

As I understand it, you think that just the bass drum is OK and the snare is overkill. .

I'm not sure if 'overkill' would be the word here. It's just that the "snare drum sample' is from a "different party".

I could of put it this way, ("spiritual" way ):
In The House of The Doughters of Mnemosyne and Zeus, where no Breathing Drummer was seen, thus there shall be no drumming be heard by any other Breathing Being, whether The Other Breathing Being happens to be a Honered Guest or a Stranger.


Natural balance is crucial in arts.

okey, here's Apollo and The Girls (source page) (I wonder if he is considered to be a Guest or A Stranger? ):

 

[jpmorris]

I'm not sure if 'overkill' would be the word here. It's just that the "snare drum sample' is from a "different party".

I could of put it this way, ("spiritual" way ):
In The House of The Doughters of Mnemosyne and Zeus, where no Breathing Drummer was seen, thus there shall be no drumming be heard by any other Breathing Being, whether The Other Breathing Being happens to be a Honered Guest or a Stranger.

Thanks, but I feel a little more clarification is in order. Which of the following statements is the most accurate:

A) "I don't like the snare sound that the JV1010 makes"

B) "I believe that drum machines are a creation of the EVIL ONE and all who use them are HERETICS AND SINNERS WHO SHALL SOON FEEL THE BURNING HAND OF THEIR DARK MASTER!!!"