Oh No, Not Another Pre Thread

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Sporkmyband

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Hello,
Let me tell you a wee bit about myself. I'm a 20 year old songwriter. I have been playing guitar for 8 years and singing for 7 and doing that simulataneously for 7 years. I have been writing songs from the get-go and I have never stopped. I borrowed a Porta Studio about 4 years ago and I didn't do any homework that week or talk to any family members, hell, I don't know if I ate or what, but I was totally amazed at the concept of recording. I LOVE IT. Okay, so, anyway here is a small evolution chart for my various recording formats....
Tascam Porta > Boss BR1180CD > Yamaha AW4416HDCD > Lexicon Omega (shit PC *I think I have the Pentium IV prototype...cause it was so slow!* using protracks plus and sonar and REASON...I LOVE REASON as much as my girlfriend, now Fiance. Well, almost.) > NOW MOVING TO Motu 896HD to use with my cube computer that I just built with a AMD Sempron 3100+, 100gb and 160gb drive with 1GB of DDR Ram. I monitor with my Mackie HR626 monitors. I have two Oktava MC012s (yall were there at guitar center that week too weren't you)! A Rode NTK (muh baby). 2 JoeMeek VC6Qcs british channels, 1 DBX 286A (just sold my other 286 on ebay), and I am looking to buy a SWEET ASS PREAMP. I want a better sound. I KNOW, that it doesn't matter if you have an API lunchbox (full enough to feed a fat kid), a NEVE Console, an ELAM251, Neuman U47s laying in the couch collecting like pocket change, it is not FOOL PROOF. I am aware. I wish consumers had an incling as to what goes into a recording before it tickles their ears the first time. People I don't think have ever seen what happens behind the glass. That polished sound isn't easy. I WANT IT BAD! I really do know alot you guys/gals. But this stuff about high end pres and how they can change my life and make my vocal tracks and hell, all of my tracks closer to stellar. I need help with this matter. My ABSOLUTE limit is 1300 bucks, because after I purchase the 896HD, I'm eating ramen noodles for a while. But that is okay, because music production, songwriting, pres, mics, and those tangles of chords in the floor is better than sex. So help me out people. I have the meeks which have a colored sound when used with the optical pre, and I have been told that the pres in the Motu are pretty darn good clean pres. I really want something tube. Because I am a firm believer in things like tube amps for guitars, tube mics...ect. Just cause there is a tube in it doesn't make it automatically sound good too. I know that. I had an ART MP1. Everybody should get one, so they can learn right off hand that tubes don't mean sweet. Okay so here is what I am thinking...the UNIVERSAL AUDIO LA-610. I have been told that the M-610s are really really wonderful. I have plugin comps ect. but I like to track with some compression. I always like the flavor of it. Another possibility is the Focusrite ISA 220. I have found a few deals on them too. Then there is stuff like the Grace 101 and the RNP, but I really want to get a good channel that will work on alot of sources and buy me alot of STELLARNESS. And yes, gear helps to an extent. When I got my Fulltone FullDrive Pedal for my guitar, I slapped my tubescreamer on ebay so fast the battery flew out across the room. But again, I know what to do with that pedal, I understand that I have to put a great guitar in front of it and a great amp after it. I believe that analogy applies very well with recording. There are so many variables. Anyway, with what I have told you that I have, is the Motu 896HD + UA LA-610 gonna provide me with a better chance at reaching audio nirvana (assuming the sources being recorded aren't shit). Would I be better off just getting the UA M-610? I think the compressor and extended eq, can buy me a little more flexibility for a small amount extra considering I just blew over 1K anyway. Like I said, I do have software comps too, but I won't be able to get any hardware compressor with UA written on it until probably my 35th birthday. PLEASE HELP. I THINK YOU GUYS ARE REALLY SMART TOO!
 
I'll be ordering the Toft ATC-2 tomorrow with any luck.

It's a bit steep for an amateur such as myself, but the fact that Fletcher sells it (and has good words about it) alongside some engineering marvels as Martech, Great River, API and Speck seems to make it a unit of decent quality.

If budget is an issue, the Tampa is decent (with a good compressor) or the RMP is genuinely admired round here. Dunno US prices, but someone else will fill you in.
 
hey man, I'm not much help on the pre's, but I just thought I'd say, you might wanna paragraph long posts like that abit more.. :)
 
if you want tube pre id look into a ua 2-610. i have seen them used for $1200-1300.
 
Tube mic pre: Groove Tubes BRICK. It costs little enough that you can still afford an RNC compressor and Speck ASC eq along with it. for a very nice and flexible recording channel. I personally prefer to have seperate units for each function, rather than all in one box. The BRICK is in a whole different league than ART or any of the budget tube pres.

That said, if you want a big sound then I would suggest not going with a tube pre. To me, the tube sound is a kind of softness around the edges of a sound. A high quality solid state preamp with iron is a big sound.

So with that in mind I'd suggest the Great River ME-1NV as something you should consider. This will most likely be a "lifetime" preamp, one you'll never outgrow. I beleive you can get one of these at around your budget, street price.

http://greatriverelectronics.com/mp1.html

I'd also suggest you consider the Grace 101. I have the 201 and it is a great sounding preamp in my opinion. I've used it a lot and compared it to many other preamps, and am very happy I bought it.
 
Toft ....um actually

Well, Fletcher, not that he is God for sure, possibly, his site, language and reviews make him someone I sorta worship however. But he said the pres in the Toft suck. I know that there are WORLD CLASS sounding pres for a grand. So why get some tofts that have been compared to presonus (not the highest quality presonus...the stuff we can afford). Also, tube pre = small sound? Is the Avalon 737 a small sound. Seems to me that tube guitar amps yield large sounds. I don't quite understand this phenomena, however, I still need more advice specifically about the UA LA-610 or the M -610. Please hold your comment on them unless you have actually heard one in use and were impressed or totally unimpressed or if you were in the middle. Thanks guys. You all rock for replying!
 
You must have misubnderstood Fletch completely ( as did others). I have a toft atc-2 and it is great, mid level piece of equipment. At $1000, it is a good pre, good compressor and a great eq
Fletcher said"
Fletcher
Force of Nature Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 591
Rep Power: 2


OK... if you went to that link... lemme clarify the "mic pre's suck" statement...

I should never have said that... I should have said that in comparison to the pre's in a "Tampa" they shit ice cream, but I used $2,000/channel pre's as a high water mark instead of $20/channel pre's. My bad.

If you get a chance to listen to the Toft's pre's next to a Martech MSS-10, the Martech will eat it for breakfast and shit it out before lunch... if you listen to the pre's next to the pre's in the "Tampa" they Toft pre's will be the easy winner of that head to head competition without a struggle.

I still stand next to the statement that the equalizers alone are well worth more than the price of admission and that on certain sounds, the compressors are really cool.

The ATC-2, IMNTLBFHO, is without a doubt one of the absolute best "bang for the buck" units around.

Peace.
__________________
 
The ATC-2 is one hell of an accomplishment for $999. I agree the eq's are the strong point but those preamps will stand up next to most stuff just fine.

War
 
Please re-read my post, I did not say that tubes equal a small sound. I said that tubes give a certain softness around the edges of the tone. I also said if you want huge, go with iron (transformers).
 
With that kinda cash go API...312 or 512...Check out Brent Averill's stuff or get the real deal..API stuff is clean and big....heck grab a mono 512 and a Groove Tube Brick and you would have 2 bases covered as far as "colors"...I have personally never been a Neve fan (original or clone for that matter) but some all time GREAT vox have been cut with 1073's..If you want to jump into the big leagues as far as preamp chains, bag all the hyped, fancy new channel strips and go with the original big boys...If you ever heard a vocal cut with a good Neumann or AKG C12 mic and an API 312 you would need a change of pants....real quick :)

Ray
 
Got a few tube goodies racked up we've been playing around with and comparing ... UA M-610, UA LA-610, A Designs MP-2, A Designs REDDI, Sebatron vmp-2000, Groove Tubes The Brick.

Spork, I could make some comments on these, but you really didn't say anything about the sound you're going for - other than you think you want tube. What kind of music? You want a modern sound or something more retro? All these boxes, and others, have specific characteristics. Knowing more about what you're wanting and your applications would help in making some recommendations.

Oktava MC012's and Røde NTK are the mics you have - right?
 
I ordered the Toft last week. Should have it soon. I found a dealer on ebay selling them for $800. I even called PMI to check on them. PMI said they are a good dealer and if he wants to kick back $200 off the price that's his choice. No, I have to connection to this person. Jusat bought the Toft from him.
 
DOT...I'm a huge fan

WOW.. You are kinda like a celeb to me DOT. I mean the Listening Sessions. What a brilliant SOB you are. LOL...I wish only I had thought to make all of the gear companies want to send me their highes grade stuff so I could tell the world (i.e. the recording hobbyists and professionals). COOL IDEA! Anyway, you are right I have the NTK, two of the MK012s, a 57, 2 58s, Sennheiser e602 or 609..the kick one I forget.. the meeks as you already saw. I like the sound of the NTK alot, of course I also like the C1 (you are the one that let that cat out of the bag didn't you) You see, I don't believe in dirt cheap bargain stuff sounding as good as the best stuff...except with the C1. See, the thing is I was, at the time using an AW4416, and looking for my first decent LDC. I went the music store where they were really cool about me doing an instore recording comparing a Groove Tubes mic that was over 700 bucks and the C1. Unfortunately, I found it more flattering on my guitar. The C1 that is. Anyway, I'm babbling, but here let me explain myself about my music. I love Death Cab For Cutie and the POSTAL SERVICE. My absolute favorite sounding record is without a single doubt the Jimmy Eat World Bleed America CD and the newest one Jimmy Eat World Futures. Everything on it is wonderful sounding. I don't hate retro, but I like modern. I think POP music is beautiful. I like the whole pop star sound often. I think Hilary Duffs stuff sounds killer. I don't care about any critism for it. I don't even mess with covers personally, but I am very interested in how great these almost one man operations work, where they make the music and then make some girl who can half sing a star. But at the same time, my respect goes to Jimmy Eat World, the Juliana Theory and a band out of Nashville called Celebrity. In my music, I do alot of programming, I have a drummer who does some live drumming on almost all tracks. I also include synths, live guitars (love layers), bass, and vox and background vocals. I do alot of whispery vocals and I try to sing where you can understand what I am saying. I want my vocals to have a magical shimmer to them. A sound that is expensive. I mean, I like the sound of the Meeks, but I think I can get better, I really believe that. Plus going to the Motu 896HD over the lexicon Omega should help that too I should hope. DOT PLEASE HELP. Vocals that float and stick out so that I sometimes accidentally spit on the listener. And I have a killer Gibson acoustic that I LOVE DEARLY and I want my recordings to have that picky glassy , but not harsh, should where the listener might reach out to pluck a string. Is that too much to ask for. LOL I really like the UA stuff. Sometimes vibe can have an effect. Think of the placebo effect. Let me know what you think about the LA-610. Should I settle with the M-610. I can't spend a cent more than the LA-610. Is that compressor worth the extra 300 bucks. I really don't want to go solid state like a Great River ect. PLEASE HELP. JUST TELL ME what they sound like. Give me some examples. Make suggestions.
 
second the brick, then again I haven't heard much. But I couldn't ask for more and people don't complain.
 
hi there,

you should really check out the Sebatron Pres, i'm checking them out at the time, i guess for 1300$ you get 4 awesome (Real)tubepres.

cheers
 
Dot said:
Got a few tube goodies racked up we've been playing around with and comparing ... UA M-610, UA LA-610, A Designs MP-2, A Designs REDDI, Sebatron vmp-2000, Groove Tubes The Brick...
Click to expand...

Not to hijack this thread, but I'd be interested to hear your comparison/contrast of these pres.
 
Spork, have you considered API? You could get into an API 512C mic pre/ and a API 500H Module Rack for what you're looking to spend. I honestly wouldn't fixate on tube pres so much. I agree you should go for something "classic" and serious - which is why I think you should consider API. I love tube pres, and use them all the time. But I wouldn't pick any of them over API for what you're wanting to do and the sound you're wanting.

http://www.apiaudio.com/512c.html
http://www.apiaudio.com/500h.html

Once you've invested in the 500H module, then you can later add another pre, eq or compressor.
 
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