Note in a bass pattern that's lost in the mix

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bluedaffy

bluedaffy

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In one of the heavier rock songs I'm currently mixing there is a bridge that has a rolling bass part. I played the rough mixes for the band about a week ago and the bass player asked if the higher note in the bass pattern could be brought up in the mix. I agree with him, it doesn't cut through to my satisfaction either. He prefers a bass sound with more mid and treble compared to most because the pitches are a lot of what defines his style, so I already have it eq'd as such, and I feel like I'm already on the brink of having too much string/slap/pluck sound, so I would rather not boost the higher range any more in his bass. I'm attaching a small clip of this pattern, and when you listen to the clip it should be clear which octave higher note I'm talking about.

Even if it's an insert that I just apply solely to this bridge bass part, I can do that, I just don't know the best way to pull it out...

Thanks!View attachment Mr. Summer-Rolling Bass.mp3
 
There's a lot of high end there for a bass so I can see why you don't really want to eq any more.
Maybe working on a parallel track could help here?
I'd be tempted to duplicate the bass track, mute the original then do any kind of trickery necessary to bring out that high note, or suppress the rest.
Once you've got it, blend it in with the original.


Of course the most effective but most time consuming way is just to volume automate that single note each time.
Are you working to a click? You could just cut out one of those notes, turn it up a bit, then copy and paste the rest of the way through the track.
 
i'd change the bass, and re-record the part.



always fix problems at the root cause.
 
Are you suggesting switching to a different bass guitar to re-record the same part again? I'm sure you have a good reason for suggesting this, but I'm at a loss as to why that would help.
 
I'm on my phone, so I didn't hear it, but I'm with Steen. Volume automation. If the note occurrs many times, just copy and paste your volume automation.
 
Kinda hard to say what's the right thing to do without hearing the bass in the context of the whole mix.
 
Auto Vol OR reamp that section through a wah pedal.
Re record that section - do it with the EQ at the bass/amp level, get him to hit that note harder., tell him no way it'll sound awful.
 
I had the same issue on a project i worked on recently where a couple of notes in a phrase got lost (it was this little pre-chorus bit and the it was the lower notes that got lost). We ended up using a combination of volume automation and compression, with the compressor automated only to come during the section. Honestly, it was a nightmare but it worked in the end.

Tbf, that whole project required more automation than i've ever used in my life :facepalm:
 
I've started using side-chain compression lately to get things like bass to cut through the mix. Maybe automate that note a bit louder and then have the bass compress the guitars (or other rhythm instruments that take up a lot of eq space.)
 
bluedaffy said:
Are you suggesting switching to a different bass guitar to re-record the same part again? I'm sure you have a good reason for suggesting this, but I'm at a loss as to why that would help.
Click to expand...

YES.

good bass playing requires attention to detail, and that covers just about all the 'technique' stuff..

but some lesser basses have dead spots, and of course, you should be able to hear this as you are performing.

if it is the bass itself creating the 'dead spot', and it is consistent, then it makes perfect sense that a different bass, with a different set of 'everything' might be just the thing to avoid the 'dead spots'.

you have a problem, if you are recording and later hearing notes that fade away..

you should fix this at the source.

always, at the source, not after the fact by doing painful edits like riding the volume with automation...

very cumbersome.
 
GONZO-X said:
but some lesser basses have dead spots, and of course, you should be able to hear this as you are performing.
Click to expand...

This is totally true.
I kinda went into autopilot with my response because I'm not a bassist and I've only ever had pretty crappy basses.
 
A spectrum analyzer might allow you to see what is masking that one note and make EQ adjustments, either to the bass or 'offending' instrument to give both their own place in the mix.
 
Duplicate the orginal bass track designating one track to low end processing and the second to mids and highs. Then work with the mids and highs as far as upper mid defention on the notes without having to worry about the actualy low end "bass" being to loud. Good eq can bring out defintion and "raise the volume" of those notes without techniclly bringing up the level.
 
I was going to suggest something similar, but duplicate the track and use frequency controlled compression on the duplication so that the compressor slams the low end and leaves the high notes that you cannot hear alone. Then mix the tracks together so that you get an increase in the missing notes.

After all this I am asking myself why just using some normal compression on the track does not bring up the missing notes? And to add more confusion, parallel compression anyone. I use parallel compression on most of my bass tracks these days, and not only do I record other bass players but I also am a bass player.

Also did you record a DI track and a mic on the amp track? If you did let us know as there may be another fix.

Alan.
 
Hi there

If it is only a few notes which are causing the problem in one section of the track, why not select those notes in the audio file and make them louder?
...or have I missed something?
 
Dags said:
Hi there

If it is only a few notes which are causing the problem in one section of the track, why not select those notes in the audio file and make them louder?
...or have I missed something?
Click to expand...

I get the feeling that this happens through the whole song as part of a continuing pattern not just a short phrase, unless I am mistaken.

Alan.
 
A simple trick in any DAW that can change the perception of how notes are layered/stacked at a given beat of a song is to just move one note by a millisecond, or even just a few samples back/forward.

I've run into this a lot of times where there may be a half-dozen or more track elements all hitting a note on the same beat...and usually some will win and some will be masked. Nudging just one changes the feel/sound of that stack.

Try it with just drums....find a point where you might have Kick/Snare/Hat all hitting on the same beat...and just by moving one of them few samples, the combined tone of all three changes to where either the Kick will be more pronounced, or the Snare or the Hat....and this works the same for instruments, like bass, where it often WILL be hitting on the same beats as the Kick and Snare...so by nudging the note back/forward, its perception will change, and that's without doing anything to boost volume in any manner or using any EQ.
 
This is true. I learned it in reverse.
You know sometimes you just hear this blip or click or whatever distracting noise?
Process of elimination tells you it's in the drum track because it goes away when you mute the drums.
Solo the drums and they sound completely fine?!

I'm not sure if it'll help you in this situation or not, but a few ms can make a massive difference.
 
Short of re-tracking, I think what needs to be done on this is some compression, and an EQ before the compressor to remove the ultra-lows and the fundamental frequency of any low note that's too heavy relative to the other notes.
 
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