Not Happy With Mastering Results

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moelar2

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Ok, so we took our five song demo to get mastered with a reputable person and I'm simply not satisfied with the sound. it didn't "open" the sound as much as I expected, and the mix is not consistent (I took my cubase/layla setup and we did some mixing there). $600 later, I still don't feel like the sound quality is comparable to others...

What should I do? How do I know if its the mastering that went wrong? Is there a way to A/B it without incuring too much cost (have someone else master a section of the same song..)?

Your advice is greatly appreciated.
 
moelar2 said:
Ok, so we took our five song demo to get mastered with a reputable person and I'm simply not satisfied with the sound. it didn't "open" the sound as much as I expected, and the mix is not consistent (I took my cubase/layla setup and we did some mixing there). $600 later, I still don't feel like the sound quality is comparable to others...

What should I do? How do I know if its the mastering that went wrong? Is there a way to A/B it without incuring too much cost (have someone else master a section of the same song..)?

Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

I would let people here listen to the original mixdown, then the mastered version.
We once had a project mastered by a " Big " mastering company a while back and after 1,500 bucks or so later. it sounded like sh@t. But, It was the sorry mixdown. They should have told us that we sent them sh@t before they even started.

Good Luck

Malcolm
 
Compare your "raw" mixes to the mastered ones and try to see where/what the differences are... then decide if the ME did what he could given what you supplied, or whether a remix is necessary....
 
agreed, as much as a mastering business is just that, and they need money to stay in business, their reputation is built on the albums they master... I've done a hell of a lot of mastering, and I've turned down a hell of a lot of projects if I don't think I can do anything to make it sound better. I also know of houses other than mine that offer 30 or 60 second free mastering, where they'll master a clip of your music and let you be the difference. That said, most mastering houses that I've dealt with pretty much assure your satisfiaction, and that's usually why they'll turn down work if they can't help.

Mastering isn't a miracle, but they should tell you up front. I agree with the previous poster, put up a sample of your original mixdown, then the master... that'll help a lot.


~Rich
 
Thanks guys..

I will definitely post something. I still have to connect my computer - the mix shouldn't have been much of a problem since I took my rig to his studio; he actually did several modifications to our mixes. I took the "final" product to a friend's house and he said it generally sounded good.

Nonetheless, I will post two clips within the next 24 hours.
 
Sorry i took so long...

I'm not sure what the best way to do this is, but for all intents and purposes I suppose attaching mp3 files will suffice.

This first clip is the mastering engineer's premaster mix. He remixed the mixes we took, supposedly to render the best results. This is the song that needs the most work. Ironically, its also our most down-the-middle/straight forward song (which would logically be the easiest to mix).
 
Sorry about that...

I had to upload it to my ftp...it wouldn't attach for some reason...here are the files:

www.opensure.com/mastering/JV premastermix.mp3

www.opensure.com/mastering/Remember Mastered .mp3

www.opensure.com/mastering/remember my mix.mp3

1) mastering engineer's mix - he modified our mix
2) this what resulted - the mastered version of his mix.
3) after i became displeased with what I heard, I jumped on Cool edit, and in less than ten minutes was able to more or less approximate his mastered version.

Thanks for your help!
 
copy the whole address into your address bar..for some reason it didn't hyperlink the whole address...
 
Sorry - those aren't working - there are spaces!

(and it doesn't work even replacing the spaces with '+' or '_' ---- we need the proper URLs)
 
Well... I would say that the problem is in the mix -- the final mix itself is pretty thin and lacks punch....

The mastered version sounded heavier, but the punchiness I think you want is not something that the ME could accommodate given what he had to work with...

Your "mastered" version - sorry to say - was awful - true, it wasn't on the boomy side like the ME's version but ut was screechy and over-EQ'd....

Overall the ME's version is the best of the lot, but on the boomy side for my tastes...

The solution however, really is to go back to the mixing board and make sure you mix it with the mid-punch you're looking for..... you don't fix tracking in the mix, and you don't fix mixing during mastering -- for best results you make sure it sounds the way you want at each stage of production....!
 
Point well taken...

So, what would you do in my shoes? I realize my recordings have a long way to go, but I doubt that they are too shitty to get good results from them.

Should I pay someone to mix it?

My "mastered" version was, as mentioned, not something I spent time on. As a matter of fact, I did it on my internet computer through some $15 Altec Lansing computer speakers... Since you pointed out that it sounds like ass, I'm actually curious to take it down stairs and listen to it through my monitors :) - how embarrassing! I should probably remove it! Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that I think I can approximate what he's done on my system (downstairs in the recording room).

I completely agree with you when you say that the main problem was in the mix. The mix I took him was more balanced. Should he have spent so much time on mixing? Granted, the music MAY have needed it, but if in the end we were paying for his mastering input, and not his mixing, shouldn't he have gave us more of that?
 
Well... I can't help you with what the ME should/shouldn't have said -- I'm not him! ;)

BUT - to me... while you may not have to go back to the tracking stage, a re-mix is certainly in order... if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, then you'd have to take it to another studio! This time, concentrate on getting the mix to sound precisely the way you want it,THEN an ME can put the final polish on it.

OTOH - you also have to think of the scale of production -- is it worth it to re-mix? Are you selling this on a CD? Is it just for demo purposes?? Major label shopping??? If the project doesn't merit the added expense, consider living with the ME's version that you already have...

Good luck with it!
 
We were initially planning on replicating this. We have album design and everythign ready..but after we heard the master, we were quite discouraged. Its basically suppose to be a nicely produced demo. The sound is just not there right now.

Maybe my first mistake was tyring to be producer/engineer/musician/mixer all at once. I've done much better recordings than that... I might have to take the back seat next time!
 
Just a few more thoughts...

I just listened to the ME's version again... one of the big issues I hear is the lack of clarity and ambience in the drum beds.... they're simply flat and lifeless sounding... and since the drum sound contributes the majority of the track's ambience, the sound of those tracks can make or break your mix.

Next area is the bass - very muddy and poorly defined, and then the guitars - not enough "air" around them so they tend to wash over everything....
 
Re: Just a few more thoughts...

Blue Bear Sound said:
I just listened to the ME's version again... one of the big issues I hear is the lack of clarity and ambience in the drum beds.... they're simply flat and lifeless sounding... and since the drum sound contributes the majority of the track's ambience, the sound of those tracks can make or break your mix.

Next area is the bass - very muddy and poorly defined, and then the guitars - not enough "air" around them so they tend to wash over everything....
Click to expand...

Im just curious as to what the low rumbling sound was. I assume bass but I am on some small pc speakers right now and if they are picking it up then I guess it must be pretty loud.

Bruce I got a question,, Say if someone who was really good at mastering with the full suite, nice chain, outboards, etc and all really wanted to save this track because it could not be duplicated and the ME had plenty of time to wirk with it, could he like dial in to certain freqs with say a Para and some mutibands to bring out things like the Kick drum? If so I know it would time some time to do, but can this be done without killing it even more? I know that remixing the source tracks are the key, but what if it's a major emergency and some Big label was willing to pay a lot of $$$ for this service?

what type of equipment would be best for something like this? If it's possible.

Malcolm
 
Well... you're really talking about a rescue operation, and if the mastering engineer would need to put in just as many hours to rescue the song as it would to re-mix it, then it would be re-mixed!

The SADIE as the DAW-of-choice for many Mastering Facilities, along with a mess of extremely high-end outboard gear from the likes of Wiess, Manley, GML, etc...
 
There are some cases where a remix isn't going to happen. For example, lots of home/garage studio's don't have good rooms or monitoring for the mix to get any better. The inherent problem is the mix will never be able to counter the rooms bad effect. So in those cases your probably going to have to settle for a compromise in the mastering job. If...the tracking was clean and there is next to no bus compression used the ME has alot of tricks to balance the whole picture. A good EQ is the best weapon, which run in the $15,000 and up range for this kind of work. Then again... there is so much subjectivity or taste when it comes to mastering. Its hard to judge a good master on an mp3, even a red book cd on a bad monitoring system. If your looking at everything thru fogged up eye glasses youll never know a good mastering kob from the bad. Best thing is to tell the ME it isn't translating and you want to visit his facility to hear what he hears...

SoMm
 
OK

I get you guys, but I am mostly talking about for instance a Mixdown. IE. say if someone found some horrible recording that the Beetles did in some garage or maybe Pauls House. LOL.

Non of the original tracking was anywhere to be found. The mix is not that good, but it's not so bad that it couldn't be worked with, meaning Damaged.

Say maybe a 1 or 2" reel to reel type of recording.

So the person who finds this recording sells it to some major Label. Now the Label wants it to sound good enough to be commercial The Playing is good the whole performance is Great, but the sound sucks. Now they are willing to pay a bundle for it to be released maybe. How would they get it close to sounding well enough for a commercial realease? Is this like restoration maybe? If it was posssible, what type of tools would the Me use.

This is just a Hypathetical question now. I just used The B's as a example.

Malcolm
 
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