No Inserts?

[sdly731]

Hello:

I'm considering purchasing a MOTU 8Pre or similar A/D with built-in pre-amps. Anyway, I'm noticing that there are no inserts on any of the inputs, so if you need to place a compressor/limiter in-line, on the input, how would you go about doing that? Is there a way to apply software compression to a track before it's burned to disc?

Thanks,

Sean

 

[gecko zzed]

Some interfaces have inserts, but many do not.

If they don't have inserts, then you either do not compress or limit on the input, or you get a mixer (with inserts) as an intermediate stage between mike and interface.

Once you have got material recorded, there are many compressors, limiters and other effects that you can apply to the recorded material before committing it to disk. Most audio programs come with their own suite of effects, and there are many other sources of downloadable ones (some are free, others are not).

My recommendation? Don't worry about compressing the input. It is one level of complexity less that you have to worry about, and one potential source of noise and other problems less. The downside is that you have to take a bit more care at setting input levels.

 

[cobaltaudio]

gecko is absolutely right here.
probably much easier to do the compressing you need in your recording software with a plugin.

 

[Massive Master]

Agreed again - but side-noting: I would go as far as to say that it's much easier setting levels without compromising the dynamics on the way in. Hit the loudest possible part, set that for maybe -12dBFS or so and go. When you put a compressor in line, many have a tendency to overdrive the input preamp.

Boring rant on recording levels: Proper Audio Recording Levels | Rants, Articles | MASSIVE Mastering

 

[Bguzaldo]

If you are still dead set on comp/limiting on the way in you could just get a patchbay.

 

[moresound]

If you are still dead set on comp/limiting on the way in you could just get a patchbay.

Exactly and then why stop at just comp/limiting.

In some tracking processing is cool on the way in if you know what your doing and are aware of what you want for an end product.
Most tracking should be raw and void of processing until it's all in the box then you know where things stand and what will be needed to be dealt with.

 

[sdly731]

Thanks for all the good feedback. I do agree with the "less is more" recording philosophy, particularly with compression/limiting, but I can't help but think that I'll have a situation where I need it.

I guess this is what is making me nervous: I currently own a couple Aardvark Q10s (in which have served me well for several years, but I'm about ready to throw them in the dumpster ) and there was a limitation in the pre-amp software where you couldn't turn the pre-amp gain down very far (minimum -8 db, if I remember correctly), so for instruments that record very hot (i.e. drum kit) you would HAVE to use a compressor/limiter of some kind, on the input, or it would distort the hell out of those tracks. I trust that if I purchase a "modern" A/D/pre-amp box, such as a MOTU 8pre or PreSonus FireStudio, I wouldn't have this limitation with the pre-amp gain, correct?

 

[Massive Master]

There is the rare occasion that you might need to pad the mic input -- It happens (especially with close-mic'd drums). But again -- The pad needs to be *before* the preamp stage (hence why pads are either on the mic itself or at the input before the gain stage of a preamp). Compressing or padding after (such as at an insert point) is still allowing the signal to saturate and distort (or in some cases, clip at the failure-voltage point).

I'm thinking you just need a handful of 10 or 20dB input pads...

 

[sdly731]

Thx John! I believe that's the answer I needed. Just to clarify: Would it be kosher to put a hardware compressor in-line before the pre-amp to use basically as an input pad? The mics I use don't have this option, and I'd prefer to use what I have. . .

 

[gecko zzed]

Thx John! I believe that's the answer I needed. Just to clarify: Would it be kosher to put a hardware compressor in-line before the pre-amp to use basically as an input pad? The mics I use don't have this option, and I'd prefer to use what I have. . .

You can try it, but I don't fancy your chances of success. The hardware is expecting a line-level input, whereas your mikes are delivering a mike-level output.

 

[cobaltaudio]

The compressor before the mic amp thing, take gecko's advice here. It's really unlikely to be successful. You probably won't be able to get the threshold low enough to apply any meaningful compression, and you'll be adding noise while the signal is at relatively low level i.e. before the mic amp. When it passes through the mic amp, you'll make the signal louder and all the extra noise louder with it. Not desirable.
Put a pad in. It will be the cheapest option anyway and very easy to do. OR reduce the 'volume' actually physically with the mic by moving it further away or changing it from the drum, or turning the guitar amp down, or put a pad in actually on the mic. If they aren't possible, then you're probably using an electronic instrument which will have a volume control on it, turn that down instead. OR put a pad in on the DI box.
There is ALWAYS a way to get less signal before the mic amp, it really shouldn't be a problem.
While we're on the subject, take a read of this post Gain Structure which I hope will enable you to set out your gain better across the whole system, and should answer some questions.

 

[Bobbsy]

There are a few compressors with mic level inputs out there but they're rare.

However, the advice you've had so far is good. You're far better of NOT doing any processing on your signal before you record it. You have far more control later. The most I'll ever use is a limiter (as opposed to compressor) and, even in that case, I set up my gain staging so it should never come into play. It's more "belt and braces" than an integral part of the signal chain.

Microphone pads are much simpler (and cheaper) than a compressor. Something like THIS is all you need...and there are simpler, cheaper units out there.

Bob

 

[cobaltaudio]

Bobbsy's link there is exactly what I had in mind.
He's clearly so telepathic he can read minds on the other side of the world!

 

[Bobbsy]

LOL...actually, looking at your profile our backgrounds are fairly similar. Maybe sound engineers in UK broadcasting are just fed the same indoctrination!

 

[sdly731]

Thanks everyone for their input. This information will be immensely helpful.